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Thread: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

  1. #16
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    His pen is a huge question mark. My top three starters against his might be a wash And Scherzer and Hughes are going to open some eyes. I like my staff much better.
    That's fine TRF. You should like your team. But this is the way I look at it. The first thing you question is his pen. And, I'll agree, yours is better. But, do you really think that all of his closers will fall by the wayside?

    Imo, how good a pitching staff depends mostly on the top 5 starting pitchers and then the bullpen and starting pitching depth. I know I'm in one league with you TRF. And your bullpen would beat mine in that league too. But here are my starting pitchers in the league that you and I are both in:

    Zack Grienke,
    Dan Haren,
    Yovani Gallardo,
    Clayton Kershaw,

    David Price,
    Clay Buchholz,
    Wade Davis,
    Homer Bailey,
    Matt Latos,
    Derek Holland,
    Martin Perez
    (plus Kazmir and Bedard on the DL)

    So, I've, arguably, got 4 aces and some pretty good depth. You've got 3 guys that could be considered aces right now:

    Roy Halladay
    Justin Verlander
    Johan Santana

    plus some nice depth...

    Johnny Cueto
    Max Scherzer
    Aaron Harang
    Phil Hughes

    but noone (outside of the first 3) that could be considered an ace right now. NastyBoy has FIVE aces. I don't know about his depth but with some luck he might only need those 5 guys. 5 aces beats 4 aces and it beats 3 aces. And I don't think the difference between the bullpens is enough to make up the difference. You've got a nice pitching staff TRF, and it's possible that Hughes and Scherzer could open some eyes, but if we were to take a poll I think most would rather have his pitchers right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Plus I got a little offense too...

    C Matt Wieters
    C Geovany Soto
    1B Mark Reynolds
    1B Joey Votto
    2B Casey McGehee
    2B Ian Desmond
    3B Adrian Beltre
    3B David Freese
    SS Asdrubal Cabrera
    SS Alcides Escobar
    OF Jay Bruce
    OF Brad Hawpe
    OF Julio Borbon
    OF Rajai Davis
    OF Jason Heyward
    BN Seth Smith
    BN Clint Barmes
    BN Austin Jackson
    BN Russell Branyan

    I'm taking a chance on Desmond, Freese, Jackson and Escobar. counting on a bounceback from Beltre, but some good young talent. wish it were a dynasty league.
    I just had to underline the word 'little'.

    Outside of your catchers and corner infielders your offense isn't that great for a redraft league. Format is important though and I'd like your offense more in a dynasty.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 04-05-2010 at 05:24 PM.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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  3. #17
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    with the offense, I'm taking a few flyers, true. Still like my overall pitching staff better. My pen is better top to bottom, and my depth makes up for the possibility that one of his starters goes on the DL.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #18
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Lets compare the two rotations side by side:

    Roy Halladay vs. Roy Halladay - Push.
    Tim Lincecum vs. Justin Verlander - Lincecum by a wide margin.
    Zack Greinke vs. Johan Santana - Greinke.
    Dan Haren vs. Max Scherzer - Haren by a wide margin.
    Chris Carpenter vs. Phil Hughes - Carpenter by an even wider margin.

    Mariano Rivera vs. Mariano Rivera - Push.
    Andrew Bailey vs. Heath Bell - Push. Bailey has some injury risk, Bell may end up getting traded.
    Ryan Franklin vs. Francisco Cordero - Cordero.
    David Aardsma vs. Jon Rauch - Aardsma.

    Despite the added "depth" provided by Harang and Cueto, I'm not sure how this is even a debate...

  5. #19
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    Lets compare the two rotations side by side:

    Roy Halladay vs. Roy Halladay - Push.
    Tim Lincecum vs. Justin Verlander - Lincecum by a wide margin.
    Zack Greinke vs. Johan Santana - Greinke.
    Dan Haren vs. Max Scherzer - Haren by a wide margin.
    Chris Carpenter vs. Phil Hughes - Carpenter by an even wider margin.

    Mariano Rivera vs. Mariano Rivera - Push.
    Andrew Bailey vs. Heath Bell - Push. Bailey has some injury risk, Bell may end up getting traded.
    Ryan Franklin vs. Francisco Cordero - Cordero.
    David Aardsma vs. Jon Rauch - Aardsma.

    Despite the added "depth" provided by Harang and Cueto, I'm not sure how this is even a debate...
    Personally I would give the nod to Bell over Bailey.
    Somebody's gotta win and somebody's gotta lose and I believe in letting the other guy lose.

    -Pete Rose

  6. #20
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    I don't think Lincecum over Verlander is a wide margin. You could make the argument that they were quite comparable last year.

    A health Santana, in the NL will post better numbers than Greinke.

    Haren is a beast. So underrated. This is the first year I don't have him on a roster. Worst Jocketty trade ever. But Hughes and Scherzer while mostly potential at the moment can equal him. Both are high upside pitchers. Haren is the sure thing. I'm counting on a major step forward, especially from Hughes. Look at his 2009 numbers. He turned a corner big time.

    I'm waiting for Carpenter's arm to fall off. Should happen any day now. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how this completely average pitcher in the AL has become such a dominant presence in the NL.

    I hate Chris Carpenter. I do like the X-Files though.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #21
    I can do the Hully Gully IowaRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    I see these "check out my team" posts on various websites and usually get a good laugh. I would love to have the thread starter's staff but until the rest of his team is posted, it's irrelevant. Just about anybody can draft a very good pitching staff, obviously drafting a very good, balanced, team in a quality league, is the challenge. If he had an outstanding (or even decent) offense as well, he would have posted it.
    More often than not, when someone is telling me a story all I can think about is that I can't wait for them to finish so that I can tell my own story that's not only better, but also more directly involves me.

  8. #22
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I don't think Lincecum over Verlander is a wide margin. You could make the argument that they were quite comparable last year.

    A health Santana, in the NL will post better numbers than Greinke.

    Haren is a beast. So underrated. This is the first year I don't have him on a roster. Worst Jocketty trade ever. But Hughes and Scherzer while mostly potential at the moment can equal him. Both are high upside pitchers. Haren is the sure thing. I'm counting on a major step forward, especially from Hughes. Look at his 2009 numbers. He turned a corner big time.

    I'm waiting for Carpenter's arm to fall off. Should happen any day now. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how this completely average pitcher in the AL has become such a dominant presence in the NL.

    I hate Chris Carpenter. I do like the X-Files though.
    Verlander was great last season and is a legitimate top ten fantasy starting pitcher, but he's not in the same class as Lincecum. Compare their numbers from last season:

    Lincecum - 2.48 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 261 K, 10.42 K/9, 2.34 FIP
    Verlander - 3.45 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 269 K, 10.09 K/9, 2.80 FIP

    They're about a wash when it comes to strikeouts but Lincecum decidedly better in every other statistical category.

    In regard to Greinke vs Santana, I think Santana's steadily declining K/9 and steadily rising WHIP should be reason for alarm. Look at his three year progression:

    2007 - 1.07 WHIP, 9.66 K/9
    2008 - 1.15 WHIP, 7.91 K/9
    2009 - 1.21 WHIP, 7.88 K/9

    It's particularly alarming considering that Santana moved to NL in 2008 and most were predicting a modest bump in his peripherals given that he was moving to an easier league for pitchers. Compare that to Greinke:

    2007 - 1.30 WHIP, 7.82 K/9
    2008 - 1.28 WHIP, 8.14 K/9
    2009 - 1.07 WHIP, 9.50 K/9

    Even if Greinke isn't able to match his production from last season, I think he's likely to end up being better than Santana.

  9. #23
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Santana was battling an elbow problem last year. That seems to be fine now. bounceback year for him.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  10. #24
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    I'm with the majority here, TRF. Your pitching is good, but the OP's is better.

  11. #25
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    meh. we shall see. Harang did hurt me yesterday though. Lets see at the end of the year.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #26
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Well, I have adjusted my pitching roster a bit. My top four are Halladay, Santana, Verlander and Hughes. I still have Cueto. I've dropped Harang and Scherzer, and added Cecil, Morrow and Masterson. I could probably drop all three of those guys and just go with my top four and be #1 in this league with my pitching. Hughes has been just sick for me this year.

    And my offense has really surprised me. 1st in HR's and RBI, 2nd in OPS and BB's, 3rd in avg.

    But I think my top 4 rate pretty well with his top 4.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #27
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Well, I have adjusted my pitching roster a bit. My top four are Halladay, Santana, Verlander and Hughes. I still have Cueto. I've dropped Harang and Scherzer, and added Cecil, Morrow and Masterson. I could probably drop all three of those guys and just go with my top four and be #1 in this league with my pitching. Hughes has been just sick for me this year.

    And my offense has really surprised me. 1st in HR's and RBI, 2nd in OPS and BB's, 3rd in avg.

    But I think my top 4 rate pretty well with his top 4.
    I think Roy Halladay is better than Roy Halladay.

    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  14. #28
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I think Roy Halladay is better than Roy Halladay.

    Only when he pitches against the Mets.

    Hughes has been crazy good though. Guess the Yankees made the right choice between him and Joba.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #29
    Member 11larkin11's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    I thought my staff coming into this year was pretty good.

    Josh Beckett
    Jon Lester
    Zach Greinke
    Cole Hamels
    Josh Johnson

    With Jered Weaver and Edwin Jackson as my extras. So far, it has been horrible. Greinke has been good, as has Weaver, but the others...
    Domo Arigato, Here Comes Joey Votto

    ---TRF

    "I do what I want to do and say what I want to say."

    --Bronson Arroyo

  16. #30
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: The Best Fantasy Pitching Staff EVAR!

    Quote Originally Posted by 11larkin11 View Post
    I thought my staff coming into this year was pretty good.

    Josh Beckett
    Jon Lester
    Zach Greinke
    Cole Hamels
    Josh Johnson

    With Jered Weaver and Edwin Jackson as my extras. So far, it has been horrible. Greinke has been good, as has Weaver, but the others...
    Lester has pitched much better of late. After a terrible start, he has rebounded nicely.


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