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Thread: Juan Francisco

  1. #46
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    And this is why purely looking at numbers to make a comp is silly... Wily Mo hit early in his career, but once the book got out that he couldn't hit a breaking pitch, his career faded FAST... The numbers may LOOK similar, but Francisco can hit breaking pitches... What will make or break his career is whether he can lay off of pitches out of the zone. Still far too early in his developmental process to tell if that's going to be the case or not. However, the Wily Mo comp doesn't hold up at all outside of the fact that both had great raw power.
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  3. #47
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    And this is why purely looking at numbers to make a comp is silly... Wily Mo hit early in his career, but once the book got out that he couldn't hit a breaking pitch, his career faded FAST... The numbers may LOOK similar, but Francisco can hit breaking pitches... What will make or break his career is whether he can lay off of pitches out of the zone. Still far too early in his developmental process to tell if that's going to be the case or not. However, the Wily Mo comp doesn't hold up at all outside of the fact that both had great raw power.
    How many times have you seen Francisco hit? I have seen Wily Mo hit a breaking ball too. He just can't do it every day.

    Francisco is a guy who despite these tools, didn't blow AA away in the slightest. In very small samples he posted good slash lines in AAA and the majors, but they were also boosted by a BABIP over .500. There are a lot of ways to get Francisco out and when he is exposed to a level long enough, guys will and have found it because his approach hasn't much changed.

  4. #48
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    And this is why purely looking at numbers to make a comp is silly... Wily Mo hit early in his career, but once the book got out that he couldn't hit a breaking pitch, his career faded FAST... The numbers may LOOK similar, but Francisco can hit breaking pitches... What will make or break his career is whether he can lay off of pitches out of the zone. Still far too early in his developmental process to tell if that's going to be the case or not. However, the Wily Mo comp doesn't hold up at all outside of the fact that both had great raw power.
    I think after a nice sample size you'll see that this bolded quote is accurate about either Wily or Juan. The only difference being Juan may be able to hit the same curveball better if he knows it's coming than Wily could. But short of that I think he'll be as unimpressive overall.
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  5. #49
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Wily Mo was among the worst defenders I've ever seen. Francisco appears to be a poor defender at third, but I have no idea what he's like in the outfield. Making that kind of defense comp. with Wily Mo is probably way premature.
    He's a disaster at 3B. He's not played many games in LF, so the odds are against him that he could just trot into LF and be at least a neutral defender. He does have youth on his side, but I think Wily Mo is definitely a fair comparison.

  6. #50
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Yeah, Francisco is Edwinesque at third. If you put them both at third base and switched their jerseys, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The main was I brought up this thread was because I'm curious what the Reds will do on Sunday.

    Francisco is better than Nix, there's no doubt (in my mind) at least that's true. If Francisco could develop into an everday player, than I would send him to AAA. However, if his best case is bench player/bat vs. RHP, I might consider keeping him up and cutting Nix loose.

    Something about him is impressive to me, even if his numbers say he can't walk enough to stick.

  7. #51
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Yeah, Francisco is Edwinesque at third. If you put them both at third base and switched their jerseys, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The main was I brought up this thread was because I'm curious what the Reds will do on Sunday.

    Francisco is better than Nix, there's no doubt (in my mind) at least that's true. If Francisco could develop into an everday player, than I would send him to AAA. However, if his best case is bench player/bat vs. RHP, I might consider keeping him up and cutting Nix loose.

    Something about him is impressive to me, even if his numbers say he can't walk enough to stick.
    What we need to remember about the move on Sunday is that the Reds not only need to clear a spot on the 25 man roster, but on the 40 man a well. If Francisco goes down he'll be optioned, that clears the 25, but he's not going to be removed from the 40 man. That's why I think it could still be Nix or Cairo that goes.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  8. #52
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    If the Reds could get Bronson Arroyo + cash for Wily Mo Pena, what do you think they could get for Juan Francisco?

  9. #53
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    What we need to remember about the move on Sunday is that the Reds not only need to clear a spot on the 25 man roster, but on the 40 man a well. If Francisco goes down he'll be optioned, that clears the 25, but he's not going to be removed from the 40 man. That's why I think it could still be Nix or Cairo that goes.
    Can't they still put Edison on the 60 day DL?
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  10. #54
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Can't they still put Edison on the 60 day DL?

    Edinson's probably already on the 60 day DL.
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  11. #55
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    What we need to remember about the move on Sunday is that the Reds not only need to clear a spot on the 25 man roster, but on the 40 man a well. If Francisco goes down he'll be optioned, that clears the 25, but he's not going to be removed from the 40 man. That's why I think it could still be Nix or Cairo that goes.
    There are only 6 OF on the 40 man, so I think Nix stays. Cairo could go, but for some reason that strikes me as cruel unless the Reds told him they day they kept him that it was only for a week.

    I really don't think the Reds would want to keep Fransisco on the bench all year, so I do think it will be him. And in that case, they need to make room on the 40 man, my guess would be either Mike Lincoln or Carlos Fisher. Both are the definition of fungible relievers; they can miss some bats, but don't have great control and have limited upside. Obviously, Lincoln would be my preference.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-08-2010 at 05:38 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #56
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Edinson's probably already on the 60 day DL.
    Yeah but I didn't think they needed to in order to bring someone up. They DFA Balentien and Miles and signed Nix and Cairo. Unless there's someone else they needed to clear room for on the 40 man, Leake can just take Edison's spot.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  13. #57
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Yeah but I didn't think they needed to in order to bring someone up. They DFA Balentien and Miles and signed Nix and Cairo. Unless there's someone else they needed to clear room for on the 40 man, Leake can just take Edison's spot.
    40 man is full, not including Volquez.

    Code:
    #	Pitchers (22+1)		B/T	Ht	Wt	DOB
    61	Bronson Arroyo		R-R	6'4"	195	Feb 24, 1977
    34	Homer Bailey		R-R	6'3"	210	May 3, 1986
    45	Bill Bray*		L-L	6'3"	220	Jun 5, 1983
    51	Jared Burton*		R-R	6'5"	230	Jun 2, 1981
    54	Aroldis Chapman*	L-L	6'4"	185	Feb 28, 1988
    48	Francisco Cordero	R-R	6'3"	240	May 11, 1975
    47	Johnny Cueto		R-R	5'10"	210	Feb 15, 1986
    65	Enerio Del Rosario*	R-R	6'2"	165	Oct 16, 1985
    46	Carlos Fisher*		R-R	6'4"	225	Feb 22, 1983
    39	Aaron Harang		R-R	6'7"	260	May 9, 1978
    52	Daniel Ray Herrera	L-L	5'6"	165	Oct 21, 1984
    63	Sam LeCure*		R-R	6'1"	205	May 4, 1984
    57	Mike Lincoln		R-R	6'2"	210	Apr 10, 1975
    56	Matt Maloney*		L-L	6'4"	220	Jan 16, 1984
    40	Nick Masset		R-R	6'4"	235	May 17, 1982
    66	Logan Ondrusek		R-R	6'8"	225	Feb 13, 1985
    33	Micah Owings		R-R	6'5"	231	Sep 28, 1982
    53	Arthur Rhodes		L-L	6'2"	220	Oct 24, 1969
    67	Jordan Smith*		R-R	6'4"	220	Feb 4, 1986
    68	Philippe Valiquette*	L-L	6'1"	205	Feb 14, 1987
    50	Pedro Viola*		R-L	6'1"	185	Jun 29, 1983
    36	Edinson Volquez**	R-R	6'0"	210	Jul 3, 1983
    71	Travis Wood*		R-L	5'11"	165	Feb 6, 1987
    
    #	Catchers (2)		B/T	Ht	Wt	DOB
    29	Ryan Hanigan		R-R	6'0"	200	Aug 16, 1980
    55	Ramon Hernandez		R-R	6'0"	225	May 20, 1976
    
    #	Infielders (10)		B/T	Ht	Wt	DOB
    77	Yonder Alonso*		L-R	6'2"	210	Apr 8, 1987
    2	Orlando Cabrera		R-R	5'10"	195	Nov 2, 1974
    43	Miguel Cairo		R-R	6'1"	225	May 4, 1974
    64	Juan Francisco		L-R	6'2"	180	Jun 24, 1987
    7	Paul Janish		R-R	6'2"	195	Oct 12, 1982
    4	Brandon Phillips	R-R	6'0"	200	Jun 28, 1981
    27	Scott Rolen		R-R	6'4"	250	Apr 4, 1975
    15	Drew Sutton*		S-R	6'3"	200	Jun 30, 1983
    60	Chris Valaika*		R-R	6'0"	215	Aug 14, 1985
    19	Joey Votto		L-R	6'3"	230	Sep 10, 1983
    
    #	Outfielders		B/T	Ht	Wt	DOB
    32	Jay Bruce		L-L	6'3"	225	Apr 3, 1987
    21	Chris Dickerson		L-L	6'3"	230	Apr 10, 1982
    31	Jonny Gomes		R-R	6'1"	225	Nov 22, 1980
    28	Chris Heisey*		R-R	6'0"	215	Dec 14, 1984
    17	Laynce Nix		L-L	6'1"	220	Oct 30, 1980
    6	Drew Stubbs		R-R	6'4"	205	Oct 4, 1984
    
    *Not in majors
    **On 60-day DL
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #58
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    This was answered earlier in another thread but they could put Bray on the 60 day DL but don't want to because that would count as service time correct?


    They could also try to sneak someone like Lecure through waivers. Now's probably a good time to try and get away with something like that.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  15. #59
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    If the Reds could get Bronson Arroyo + cash for Wily Mo Pena, what do you think they could get for Juan Francisco?
    I think this is the way to be thinking. I can't imagine we would be able to get someone as productive as Bronson has been for as cheap as he was signed while he was here...but I'd rather let Francisco become someone else's project.

  16. #60
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Yeah, Francisco is Edwinesque at third. If you put them both at third base and switched their jerseys, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The main was I brought up this thread was because I'm curious what the Reds will do on Sunday.

    Francisco is better than Nix, there's no doubt (in my mind) at least that's true. If Francisco could develop into an everday player, than I would send him to AAA. However, if his best case is bench player/bat vs. RHP, I might consider keeping him up and cutting Nix loose.

    Something about him is impressive to me, even if his numbers say he can't walk enough to stick.
    Close, but if I remember correctly, most of El Nino Destructor's errors are fielding, while EE's were throwing. Also, Francisco has a cannon attached to his right shoulder, much better than EE's.
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