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Thread: OCab vs Janish

  1. #16
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    My problem with OC is that when he goes 0-5 like he did yesterday he really hurts the team.Probably more then any other player and I think yesterday was a good example.Janish will certainly have his share of bad days at the plate when given the chance but when he does it's likely that he'll save the team a run or two as the case would have been on opening day.

    Even if that's not enough then the extra strain put on the pitching staff should tip the scale in the favor of Yanish.With a very young(and unlike OCab probably getting younger)pitching staff it would be ideal to limit their innings and high stress pitches.No better way to do that then to have stellar D at SS imo.

    I hate to say it but I think that Cabrera could end up being the Taveras of 09 and Paterson of 08 in disguise at SS.

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  3. #17
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    IMO, Dusty would have definitely batted Janish in the 2 hole, Janish would have batted about .220 at best and that offensive black hole is the last thing this team needs. The Reds are already going to have a tough enough time scoring runs on a consistent basis. Six runs on Opening Day was good, but it won't be the norm.

  4. #18
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    And yet, Janish is Willy Taveras when he hits his best...watch more than 1 game before driving the dagger through Cabrera...amazing.

  5. #19
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    IIRC, Dusty has stated that a critical need is to get better production out of the first two slots in the batting order.
    It's blasphemy too. It's quite simple...you adjust the line-up Dusty! OCab should never bat higher than 7. Janish shouldn't bat higher than 8.

  6. #20
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    It's blasphemy too. It's quite simple...you adjust the line-up Dusty! OCab should never bat higher than 7. Janish shouldn't bat higher than 8.
    Yet OC has been in the 1st or the 2nd slot 50% of his career.

    Including significant time in LA, CWS, Oak and Minn the past 4 seasons. The fact is MLB managers prefer bat control and a semblance of speed in the 2nd slot, it's never changed in my lifetime and I've been watching for 40 years now, however I bat Adam Dunn in the 2nd slot on my Strat team, I'll let ya know how that works out.

  7. #21
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    And yet, Janish is Willy Taveras when he hits his best...watch more than 1 game before driving the dagger through Cabrera...amazing.
    Actually Janish just hits like Willy.There is reason to believe that Cabrera won't but if he doesn't hit well over the .250 that I think Yanish could and get on base at a higher clip then he did last year then he shouldn't be playing every day.IMO Cabrera doesn't deserver more then a month or two to prove he can do that.Sorry but a sub .200 BA in spring training and an 0-5 start has many growing more and more concerned.However I do agree he does deserve some time but the clock's ticking.

  8. #22
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yet OC has been in the 1st or the 2nd slot 50% of his career.

    Including significant time in LA, CWS, Oak and Minn the past 4 seasons. The fact is MLB managers prefer bat control and a semblance of speed in the 2nd slot, it's never changed in my lifetime and I've been watching for 40 years now, however I bat Adam Dunn in the 2nd slot on my Strat team, I'll let ya know how that works out.
    It's funny, for decades managers put hitters just like Cabrera in the two spot in the lineup and were very successful. They are still doing it, still successful, and people are lighting their hair on fire over it.

    I do think that you want higher OBP guys at the top of the lineup, but having a guy with good bat control can also be just as effective. It's not like batting the pitcher cleanup, or playing the catcher at SS.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  9. #23
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    What concerns me the most about Cabrera is his defense. UZR had him as a -15.3 defender last season, and from what I saw yesterday, his range is well below average at this point in his career. He looked Jeff Keppinger-esque out there yesterday. With so many young pitchers in the rotation, the last thing the Reds need is a range challenged shortstop.

  10. #24
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    It's funny, for decades managers put hitters just like Cabrera in the two spot in the lineup and were very successful. They are still doing it, still successful, and people are lighting their hair on fire over it.

    I do think that you want higher OBP guys at the top of the lineup, but having a guy with good bat control can also be just as effective. It's not like batting the pitcher cleanup, or playing the catcher at SS.
    I did see yesterday during the game that Cabrera led all of baseball in advancing runners from 1st to 3rd.That could be useful in a lineup that has Votto hitting behind him.I hope it works out that way with Stubbs and OC giving the Reds offense that spark they've been missing for a long time.

  11. #25
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    I did see yesterday during the game that Cabrera led all of baseball in advancing runners from 1st to 3rd last year.That could be useful in a lineup that has Votto hitting behind him.I hope it works out that way with Stubbs and OC giving the Reds offense that spark they've been missing for a long time.

  12. #26
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yet OC has been in the 1st or the 2nd slot 50% of his career.

    Including significant time in LA, CWS, Oak and Minn the past 4 seasons. The fact is MLB managers prefer bat control and a semblance of speed in the 2nd slot, it's never changed in my lifetime and I've been watching for 40 years now, however I bat Adam Dunn in the 2nd slot on my Strat team, I'll let ya know how that works out.
    I think it makes total sense if the OBP is there, but with him, it's just not. I'd much rather see Scott Rolen in the 2 spot.

  13. #27
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    I'm just glad that Cabrera only signed a one year deal.

    From what I've seen he has no more range than Aurillia, Keppenger or Gonzales had whenever they stood between 2nd and 3rd base.

  14. #28
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Not really happy with either. This team really needed to go out and get another young up and coming option. I'm a huge skeptic where Janish is concerned. I'd love to see him hit but I don't think he ever will hit enough to be more than an insurance policy (best stashed at AAA).

    Cabrera is another in a long line of reds' players that were good a few years ago for other teams. Hernandez and to a lesser extent Rolen fit that description as well.

    A young option would help now and in the future. I think counting on Cozart as the only option down the line is foolish as well. I'm hopeful about him, but another option seems wise and we know it won't be Cabrera. Maybe Rojas will continue to develop with the bat.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #29
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I agree with this in general, but I'd say Janish is below replacement level with the bat and OCab is below replacement level with the glove. I don't see either of those changing any time soon. So the real variable here is OCab's bat. Is it STILL 10-15 runs above replacement player level? I'm not seeing it.
    At this point I would peg Janish as one of the 5 worst offensive SS. I don't know where replacement level draws the line but I don't think I would rank Janish offensive game as replacement level.

    I would be perfectly fine with Janish playing SS if I had a great offensive team. If this were an offensive juggernaut then playing Janish at SS and hitting him 8th (or 9th in the AL) would make sense. But on a team that is offensively challenged Cabrera's offensive upgrade is important.

    As for the one ball that he missed I didn't have a great angle. It looked like the ball was out of his reach but it also looked like it had a tremendous amount of top spin on it. I also give him a little of a pass because this is the first game I can recall that he has played at GABP. If his defense is bad I think the Reds will make a shift away from OCAB and move more to Janish.

  16. #30
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: OCab vs Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    It's funny, for decades managers put hitters just like Cabrera in the two spot in the lineup and were very successful. They are still doing it, still successful, and people are lighting their hair on fire over it.
    Are they successful because a cadre of Cabreras bat second or are the successful because of something else?

    I'm not really seeing a "success" correlation here. Besides, if all managers do it, wouldn't putting a "good hitter" in the 2 spot cancel out the opposition's "SS bats second" gambit?

    I do think that you want higher OBP guys at the top of the lineup, but having a guy with good bat control can also be just as effective. It's not like batting the pitcher cleanup, or playing the catcher at SS.
    No, that's the opposite extreme. This particular tactic is one steeped in tradition.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"


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