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Thread: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

  1. #331
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Nice post MWM.

    As I mentioned, I'm still hitting a decent amount of greens because I've been driving the ball great. On shorter par 4's that I'm able to hit wedges into, I'm finding the surface quite often. But anything from 8 iron or up, and I really don't want to see the percentages. I've been thinning iron shots, hoseling them, hitting huge draws with them, blocking them, and been unable to control the trajectory. If it was a simple miss (i.e. a block I battled most of last year), I wouldn't be that concerned, as it would be a repetitive miss that wouldn't be that hard to fix. I just have no idea where the ball is going with the irons. The most frustrating part is the lack of ability to hit long and mid irons even remotely solid.

    Maybe my game has always been like this, and I'm only noticing it because I'm not getting anything up and down anymore.

    The customization of a driver is something I should really look into. Pretty awesome that you were able to add 15 yards without having to change your swing.

    Here's a video from #16 at Whistling. Blocked this one out to the right.

    16 at whistling straits - YouTube
    Last edited by Homer Bailey; 06-19-2012 at 09:45 PM.

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  3. #332
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titleist-AP2...item20c709f8e3

    I'm thinking of buying these irons. Should the extra stiff shafts be a concern of mine? Again, I know so little about equipment, so any advice would help.

  4. #333
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titleist-AP2...item20c709f8e3

    I'm thinking of buying these irons. Should the extra stiff shafts be a concern of mine? Again, I know so little about equipment, so any advice would help.
    With your swing, you can probably play the X100's. This doesn't mean much to you, but I play those in my clubs and love them. They'll lower your ball flight and tighten your distance control.

    If you can, try to go to somewhere where you can hit balls with the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer. In a nutshell, you hit 3 shots and the device ranks the top 3 shafts that fit your swing. It's pretty amazing.

    Good luck!
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  5. #334
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    With your swing, you can probably play the X100's. This doesn't mean much to you, but I play those in my clubs and love them. They'll lower your ball flight and tighten your distance control.

    If you can, try to go to somewhere where you can hit balls with the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer. In a nutshell, you hit 3 shots and the device ranks the top 3 shafts that fit your swing. It's pretty amazing.

    Good luck!
    Thanks hook. So do those clubs seem like a pretty decent deal? I'm about to pull the trigger.

  6. #335
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titleist-AP2...item20c709f8e3

    I'm thinking of buying these irons. Should the extra stiff shafts be a concern of mine? Again, I know so little about equipment, so any advice would help.
    I'd be very careful on ebay for fakes. Just make sure they can be verified as authentic. I play AP2 710s and really like them. There's not much difference between the 710s and 712s, but it looks like those are the original and I think there were some decent changes to the 710. But I'd go see if you can hit some 712s somewhere like Golf Galaxy or Golfsmith with an X100 shaft. They should have similar feel. If your shaft is too soft, you'd likely be hooking the ball, or at least most of your misses would be left. If you're spraying it to both sides, I don't know how much a stiffer shaft would help.

    But it sounds like you're a really good player, so you may be able to go the X100 route on your irons. A lot of amateurs, from what I've read on club fitting sites and forums, who have a really high swing speed with their driver don't have the same with their irons, but you could be an exception to that. If you're swinging fast enough to hit X-stiff shafts, it's possible the best thing you could do for more consistency is to slow it down. But that's more Kyle's department. The most significant change I ever made over the years was to slow everything down. When I was able to that, that's when I went from 20 HC down into the mid-teens almost instantly. And since then, I've been able to work on my game and improve more effectively. If you have natural power, you're lucky, but one of the things with natural power is that you don't have to swing "hard" to generate club head speed (i.e. Ernie Els).

    I've always found DG shafts to be a bit boardy, but they may fit your game. If you do nothing else, I'd definitely try to demo different shafts. I was amazed at how much better the KBS shafts felt. I played them for 3 years and absolutely loved them. In my current set I have upgraded Nippon shafts that are also much smoother than the DGs or PX shafts. But you have to figure out what fits you best. I wouldn't buy clubs without at least trying some out first. That kind of deal will still be there. But I'd worry more about the shafts than the clubhead. At least that's what's worked best for me.

    If you really want to learn about golf, fitting equipment to your game (all the difference specs of clubheads shafts, lengths, etc.), or clubmaking I'd start spending some time at www.golfwrx.com. It's far and away the best golf forum anywhere and it has a lot teaching pros, clubmakers, and just very passionate and knowledgeable golfers. I've learned more about equipment and golf from there than anywhere else. They have several forums there for all kinds of golf-related topics.

    They also have a buy, sell, and trade forum. That's where I've bought used clubs over the last couple of years with great success. Those who sell equipment there are well known in the community and have to pass certain standards to be able to sell there. It's mostly people in the golf business. You can get great deals there and can rely on the quality of the clubs. You can but shafts, clubheads, clothes, teaching aids. Spend some time there before you decide on a set to buy would be my advice.
    Last edited by MWM; 06-20-2012 at 12:22 AM.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  7. #336
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    As a point of reference, I bought my AP2s last fall. Mine are 710s, were in great shape, with an upgraded shaft and I paid $350. I only needed 5-PW as I play hybrids for my 3 and 4.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  8. #337
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I'd be very careful on ebay for fakes. Just make sure they can be verified as authentic. I play AP2 710s and really like them. There's not much difference between the 710s and 712s, but it looks like those are the original and I think there were some decent changes to the 710. But I'd go see if you can hit some 712s somewhere like Golf Galaxy or Golfsmith with an X100 shaft. They should have similar feel. If your shaft is too soft, you'd likely be hooking the ball, or at least most of your misses would be left. If you're spraying it to both sides, I don't know how much a stiffer shaft would help.

    But it sounds like you're a really good player, so you may be able to go the X100 route on your irons. A lot of amateurs, from what I've read on club fitting sites and forums, who have a really high swing speed with their driver don't have the same with their irons, but you could be an exception to that. If you're swinging fast enough to hit X-stiff shafts, it's possible the best thing you could do for more consistency is to slow it down. But that's more Kyle's department. The most significant change I ever made over the years was to slow everything down. When I was able to that, that's when I went from 20 HC down into the mid-teens almost instantly. And since then, I've been able to work on my game and improve more effectively. If you have natural power, you're lucky, but one of the things with natural power is that you don't have to swing "hard" to generate club head speed (i.e. Ernie Els).

    I've always found DG shafts to be a bit boardy, but they may fit your game. If you do nothing else, I'd definitely try to demo different shafts. I was amazed at how much better the KBS shafts felt. I played them for 3 years and absolutely loved them. In my current set I have upgraded Nippon shafts that are also much smoother than the DGs or PX shafts. But you have to figure out what fits you best. I wouldn't buy clubs without at least trying some out first. That kind of deal will still be there. But I'd worry more about the shafts than the clubhead. At least that's what's worked best for me.

    If you really want to learn about golf, fitting equipment to your game (all the difference specs of clubheads shafts, lengths, etc.), or clubmaking I'd start spending some time at www.golfwrx.com. It's far and away the best golf forum anywhere and it has a lot teaching pros, clubmakers, and just very passionate and knowledgeable golfers. I've learned more about equipment and golf from there than anywhere else. They have several forums there for all kinds of golf-related topics.

    They also have a buy, sell, and trade forum. That's where I've bought used clubs over the last couple of years with great success. Those who sell equipment there are well known in the community and have to pass certain standards to be able to sell there. It's mostly people in the golf business. You can get great deals there and can rely on the quality of the clubs. You can but shafts, clubheads, clothes, teaching aids. Spend some time there before you decide on a set to buy would be my advice.
    Thanks again. The bolded part has me thinking that I'm not going to pull the trigger. You're right, I absolutely should hit a set before buying it. Problem is, I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on getting a set customized and getting properly fitted, although it's something I probably should do.

    Problem is pretty much anything would be an improvement over what I'm currently swinging, so I'm anxious to make a move

    Edit: I joined WRX awhile ago, but haven't really gotten involved. Looks like I'll have to give that a shot as well.

  9. #338
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    One more thing, there's more to fitting the right shaft flex than swing speed. If you're not a smooth tempo golfer, X-stiff shafts may not be the best thing for you. I went to the top fitter in Minnesota 4 years ago and he used the latest and greatest fitting technology called ShaftMax. It's a technology that allows the computer to measure the efficiency with which you "load" the shaft. I'm a very smooth tempo golfer and I happen to load the shaft much better than most players at my skill level. My swing speed always had me borderline between regular and stiff, but he had me at the high end of stiff even. When I demoed shafts I was amazed at how well I could hit the X-stiff ones. But I didn't like the feel so I went with stiff shafts and I didn't lose any distance and my disperson was much better.

    The technology he used measured how clubhead velocity changed throughout the swing. Most amateurs had bi-modal (looks like two hills) graphs because the velocity will actually speed up, then slow down, then speed up again due to tempo and swing path. Mine was actually a single peak and valley that looked like most pros (note, I'm far from a pro, but have really good tempo which is why I load the shaft so well). Basically it means that my swing speed is picking up speed beginning with my downswing and accelerating consistently with max speed being at impact when it starts a gradual decrease again.

    Here's a little about ShaftMax.

    http://www.golfclubinnovations.com.au/Shaft_Max.php

    And here's a great thread on shaft loading. The OP asks this question: "Why is it a guy with a swing speed of 95 - 100 mph gets better results from an X shaft, while a guy with a 105 - 110 mph swing speed uses a S shaft?"

    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/...ing-the-shaft/

    My suggestion would be make sure you get it right before you buy. It's well worth the time and any investment you may have to make to get fit by a GOOD FITTER (very important).
    Last edited by MWM; 06-20-2012 at 12:49 AM.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  10. #339
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Thanks again. The bolded part has me thinking that I'm not going to pull the trigger. You're right, I absolutely should hit a set before buying it. Problem is, I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on getting a set customized and getting properly fitted, although it's something I probably should do.

    Problem is pretty much anything would be an improvement over what I'm currently swinging, so I'm anxious to make a move

    Edit: I joined WRX awhile ago, but haven't really gotten involved. Looks like I'll have to give that a shot as well.
    Good call. Thing is, if you get specs that don't fit your particular game, the most likely scenario would be that you mess with your swing to learn to hit those clubs. That can be a bad habit.

    I hear you on not wanting to spend a lot of money. I was in the same boat. I'm absolutely a believer that used is the best way to go. The difference in the clubs over a year or two is almost marginal these days, but you're getting them for significantly less.

    Even if you don't want to spend on getting fit, a little reading and you should have a pretty good idea of the type of shafts, heads, etc... that would most likely fit your game. And it's not really all that customized. There's just a few things you need to get right. And once you have an idea what those are, you should be able to find them out there.

    Again, WRX is a great place to buy clubs. I had hit AP2s several times before deciding to go that route. And I knew I wanted a shaft similar to the KBS. But most of the sets were sold 3-PW and I didn't need a 3 and 4. So I went onto the "Want to Buy" forum that's in the BST forum and said I was looking for a set of AP2 710s, but only needed the 5-PW. I also said I want to spend less than $400 and that I knew it was a shot in the dark. Within a day I had 3 people reach out to me with sets that fit for less than that price. The guy I finally bought from is a novice clubmaker who wanted to get the new 712s and was willing to part ways for $350, including removing the half inch extension in the irons and adding a second wrap to the grips. He was willing to bend the clubs if I needed them. The set came, in great shape. You may want to consider posting something up in the WTB forum.

    One other thing with the AP2s is that they have less offset than most GI improvement clubs. That's actually the primary reason I wanted to change sets to begin with because I wanted less offset. If your current ones have more offset and you're comfortable with that, keep that in mind.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  11. #340
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Everything you're saying makes me realize how little I know about this stuff, and how much research I need to do. Thanks a ton for the help!

  12. #341
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Everything you're saying makes me realize how little I know about this stuff, and how much research I need to do. Thanks a ton for the help!
    No problem. I became a nerd about this stuff over the last few years. I didn't start taking golf seriously until 5-6 years ago and if I was going to struggle, I wanted to know with a certainty that it wasn't because I had the wrong equipment. There's a peace of mind that comes with that knowing you can erase that from your mind. I've refined mine over the years but through some trial and error, I have a really good idea what works for me. My bag is pretty set now. I play a wide array of brands (Ping G15 driver, Tour Edge Exotics fairway wood - the best there is out there - ping I15 hybrids, Ap2 710 5-GW, Cleveland sand and loft wedge, Odyssey putter).

    Even if you don't go into tons of detail, knowing your ball flight (it generally higher or lower or average), where your misses usually are, and what kind of transition you have - is it smooth or more violent - (this is very important), are you a digger or a sweeper should get you pretty close. For example, people who struggle with tempo and have a more jerky transition have had some success by using slightly heavier shafts.

    There's not as much to know as you may think. Do some searching on WRX for things that match your swing style and your swing flaws, and you should start to get some idea. Just be careful not to get too bogged down in every little detail. Keep to the big stuff.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  13. #342
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Thanks hook. So do those clubs seem like a pretty decent deal? I'm about to pull the trigger.
    Yes, that's a pretty good deal, but like MWM said, there will be plenty more deals if you wait a bit. If I were you, I wouldn't buy these just yet. Call a couple of courses, driving ranges, etc. in your area and ask them if they have the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer. Once again, this device is outstanding and is used by most club fitters now to choose the right shaft for players. It measures your speed, tempo, etc. It will narrow it down substantially for you. Then, you can demo the top 3 shafts to see which feel the best.

    Take your time with this decision. If done correctly, you'll have a good set for years.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  14. #343
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Thanks again. The bolded part has me thinking that I'm not going to pull the trigger. You're right, I absolutely should hit a set before buying it. Problem is, I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on getting a set customized and getting properly fitted, although it's something I probably should do.

    Problem is pretty much anything would be an improvement over what I'm currently swinging, so I'm anxious to make a move

    Edit: I joined WRX awhile ago, but haven't really gotten involved. Looks like I'll have to give that a shot as well.
    I wouldn't call myself a club junkie. I was fitted for my current set of clubs when I was a Jr. in HS back in 1998. I still use them and am still quite happy with my Mizzuno MP14's. I often just shake my head when I see a pro hit a cavity backed club when they used to hit blades. I probably will continue to hit the same irons I have until I don't possess the power to continue to hit them. Getting another set of irons will set me back close to $1000 and don't feel its necessary.

    I have bought a few hybrids, a Mizuno HiFli driving iron, and a Ping G10 driver. I know its not perfect but I usually just buy my drivers off of ebay for about a quarter of their cost used. My latest toy is a Calaway Diablo 3 wood that is fantastic. Its a 13 degree three wood that I can hit off the deck and can hit it off the tee within 20-40 yards of my driver. I usually hit a friends driver when I am looking for a new one and if it feels solid I head to ebay to buy that model. I know I could do better with a proper shaft and kick point but I don't really think paying all that money will improve my game.

    As for the putter I generally go through 3-4 putters in a season. Along with a few changes in stances and different strokes. Whenever I feel like I am not seeing the line right I will open my feet a little bit or change putters. Nothing is more frustrating than hitting the ball great yet failing to make birdies.

  15. #344
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    +1 on the shaft optimizer. I haven't used it myself but have heard it's really good. There's no substitute for hitting different shaft-head combinations. You'll be surprised how different the different shafts feel. And if you can't afford to buy an actual set of Mizunos, you'll know the shaft profile that works best for you and you can then figure out what the alternatives are for what's available in your price range.

    Being in Chicago, you should have no problem finding a demo day at a local course pretty much every week. Go to Mizuno's site and you should be able to find out where the demo days will be.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  16. #345
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    +1 on the shaft optimizer. I haven't used it myself but have heard it's really good. There's no substitute for hitting different shaft-head combinations. You'll be surprised how different the different shafts feel. And if you can't afford to buy an actual set of Mizunos, you'll know the shaft profile that works best for you and you can then figure out what the alternatives are for what's available in your price range.

    Being in Chicago, you should have no problem finding a demo day at a local course pretty much every week. Go to Mizuno's site and you should be able to find out where the demo days will be.
    The great thing about the Shaft Opimizer is you can get your specs for a decent price, $50 maybe, and you don't have to buy Mizuno clubs to get the benefits from it. The device will give you the best shaft options for you and then you decide which head you like to look at, etc.

    For me, the 1st choice was X100's, then Project X 6.5 or 7.0, then KBS something. I went with the X100's because I've played them before, I like the harder feel and I like a flatter ball flight.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.


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