Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 04-22-2010 at 10:14 PM.
I miss Adam Dunn.
And BTW, the thread starter is hardly one to be an incessant cynic. I think he's got a great point about late inning defensive subsitutions, and at the very least it's worth discussing. It's not simply a topic brought up for us miserable grumps to complain about.
Cabrera definitely hasn't looked spectacular out there and we may see Dusty start making moves like this in the future as he may not have a choice. But the guy has a nice night at the plate, the team gets a nice victory and here come the comments about the defense.
For a brief time after Moneyball came out, the Saber community downplayed the value of defense, but only because it could not be quantified. That coincided with Steroids Ball, when defense mattered a little less, since so many balls were being hit over the walls.
So for a brief time until the defensive stats were invented, defense wasn't stressed as much as it used to be, but now that the stats show how important it is, and home runs are down, teams are going back to where they were before Steroids.
It's not like this is a new, strange abstract move towards over-emphasizing defense, it's just a getting back to where the game has been for over a century.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
And the two plays in left where Dickerson, 1. made the over the shoulder catch and 2. limited a sure extra base hit to a single were not something I'd expect Gomes to get.
Defense contributed a lot to last night's win.
"Bring on Rod Stupid!"
The play in question was a tough play to make. Janish may have gotten to the ball but another question is whether or not he would have been able to make an out. I also thought that when you are playing at DP depth you are a step or two in, which may have resulted in Cabrera not getting to that ball.
Good win and good night at the plate for Cabrera last night.
And we can continue to drone on about the defense, but I haven't heard much about Dickerson's .257/.278/.343 line (with a .409 Babip!!!) with zero HR, zero RBI and 13/1 K/BB ratio. If his name was Taveras I am sure that his defense wouldn't matter in the slightest and we would have had 50 threads requesting his ouster. Hell, if his name were Stubbs maybe he would be getting petitioned to go down to the minors.
Let's just try and look at things in perspective. The team had a good win last night and all some people want to point out are Cabrera's defensive issues and how Dickerson made plays that Gomes never would have. Which may or may not be true. I totally get if it is a critical play and Gomes lets one clang off his glove or if Cabrera lets one go through his legs. But I also don't remember threads popping up when Dickerson fanned with the bases juiced or when Gomes took Motte out of the yard to win the game.
By the way, the Reds won last night.
Last edited by edabbs44; 04-23-2010 at 09:38 AM.
Etch it in stone, carry it down the mountain and show it to all... for it is the absolute truth.And we can continue to drone on about the defense, but I haven't heard much about Dickerson's .257/.278/.343 line (with a .409 Babip!!!) with zero HR, zero RBI and 13/1 K/BB ratio. If his name was Taveras I am sure that his defense wouldn't matter in the slightest and we would have had 50 threads requesting his ouster.
Team effort, team win, team game.
Cabrera's defense has not been as good as advertised so far. I don't really think there can be any disagreement with that statement. Like any measurement up to this point, that's not to say it can't change, but so far, it's not been what I expected. My concern is that he's going to live up atrocious defense of last year rather than the excellent defense of the two years prior.
I do know that defense matters as much in run prevention as pitching. I do know that "defense" is not a "new" concept and even if you and certain other posters continually poo-poo it's significance as some new-fangled "SABR" machination or "Moneyball" phenomena, the Reds most certainly do not as evidenced by their words, actions and signings over the past year.
Apologies for the logical fallacy contained in this post.
"Bring on Rod Stupid!"
It's a bit off thread, but I'll follow up. We now have OPSes of .566 and .621 competing for the CF job. What's particularly amazing about last night's win is that we somehow won with both in the lineup at the same time.
Defense isn't a new issue, it has been around ever since Abner Doubleday. But the focus on defense has reached an apex this off season. Many experts extolled the Red Sox signing of a 38 year old Mike Cameron. The Mariners were the trendy team this season because they had a great defense. While defense is nice, it takes balance to win baseball games. It takes defense, pitching, and offense to win baseball games. We can harp all we want about Cabrera's defense (which I agree has been less than stellar so far) but there is a reason the Reds went out and got Cabrera. They didn't feel that Janish could hit enough to warrant playing every day. This is coming from a front office who had made a commitment to pitching and defense.
We can applaud Dickerson's defensive prowess out in LF last night. Many people wanted Dickerson to start almost every game and lead off. Well as a poster above has posted he is putting up Taveras-esque numbers with a grand total of 1 walk. For some reason he has gotten a pass from many Reds fans, especially when he has struggled mightily at the beginning of the past two seasons.
I guess the main point of all my rambling is if you want to win games in baseball, get balance. Defense and Pitching alone won't win you games. If it would then then Seattle and San Francisco would be the two dominant teams in baseball.