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Thread: Defense

  1. #1
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Defense

    I think the Reds play so far has shown how important defense is to winning. Unfortunately it's because the Reds defense has been so bad.

    What about the Reds putting their money where their mouth is and really putting a team on the field that is all about defense? These guys are hitting enough to justify their defense, so might as well go all in and put the best defensive team out their and take their chances that way.

    This is what I propose:

    Start Janish at SS
    Move either Cabrera or Cairo
    Call up Heisey
    Platoon Heisey and Dickerson in LF
    Move Gomes to the bench

    The Reds would be in trouble for one game if two infielders got hurt, but I bet Hanigan could play 3B for a few innings if he had to (Javy did it). I'd rather deal with that than with this crappy defense from SS and LF on a day to day basis.

    Lineup:

    Stubbs
    Heisey/Dickerson (both have speed, so Baker will bat them second)
    Votto
    Phillips
    Rolen
    Bruce
    Hernandez/Hanigan
    Janish

    Bench:

    Gomes
    Nix
    Heisey/Dickerson
    Cabrera/Cairo
    Hernadez/Hanigan

    I think that's a better lineup than the Reds have now, a better bench, and a much better defense on the field.

    This team does not compete with Gomes in LF and Cabrera at SS.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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  3. #2
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    I'm in favor of anything that gets Orlando Cabrera and Jonny Gomes out of the field.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #3
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Heisey is not even close to ready to play in the majors IMO.

  5. #4
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    I think the Reds play so far has shown how important defense is to winning. Unfortunately it's because the Reds defense has been so bad.

    What about the Reds putting their money where their mouth is and really putting a team on the field that is all about defense? These guys are hitting enough to justify their defense, so might as well go all in and put the best defensive team out their and take their chances that way.

    This is what I propose:

    Start Janish at SS
    Move either Cabrera or Cairo
    Call up Heisey
    Platoon Heisey and Dickerson in LF
    Move Gomes to the bench

    The Reds would be in trouble for one game if two infielders got hurt, but I bet Hanigan could play 3B for a few innings if he had to (Javy did it). I'd rather deal with that than with this crappy defense from SS and LF on a day to day basis.

    Lineup:

    Stubbs
    Heisey/Dickerson (both have speed, so Baker will bat them second)
    Votto
    Phillips
    Rolen
    Bruce
    Hernandez/Hanigan
    Janish

    Bench:

    Gomes
    Nix
    Heisey/Dickerson
    Cabrera/Cairo
    Hernadez/Hanigan

    I think that's a better lineup than the Reds have now, a better bench, and a much better defense on the field.

    This team does not compete with Gomes in LF and Cabrera at SS.
    1. I totally agree with Janish to SS & Cabrera to the bench move. Funny how the Reds were good late last year with the strong defense. then Walt/Dusty decided to put offense (i use the term loosely) on the field over defense in 2010.

    2. IMO the CF/LF situation should be handled as such:

    Dickerson/Stubbs platoon in CF. If (big if) Stubbs hits against the RHP he does see (such as a RH reliever replacing a LH starter or against a RH starter if Dickerson is banged up or sick) then he gets more playing time. Until then its a straight platoon.

    Gomes's bat could make up for his poor defense ONLY vs LH starters. while he isn't an automatic out vs a RH pitcher his bat is no where near good enough vs a RH pitcher to make up for his glove. Heisey & Frazier are stinking up AAA. if they get it together they could replace Gomes. IMO right now he is the best we have in LF vs a RH starter.

    Who plays LF vs a RH starter? well (ducks) Nix I guess. Dorn maybe. Alonso eventually.

    So...
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    SS Janish
    3B Rolen
    LF Nix or Dorn platooning with Gomes
    CF Dickerson platooning with Stubbs
    RF Bruce
    C RH/RH

    other than Gomes starting ~40 games this is a very good defensive team. sure would help our pitchers. and what exactly is the offensive dropoff? well right now Janish is actually hitting. Cabrera isn't. and Nix is just as good as Gomes vs a RH pitcher. so defense better. offense maybe better, certainly not worse. its a win win!
    .

  6. #5
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Gomes this year is making Adam Dunn look like a young Ken Griffey Junior out there.

    No arm, no legs, no head in the field. He's our quintriplegic left fielder.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  7. #6
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    There's no facet of the game where this team currently excels. The offense is off-kilter, the defense erratic, the starting pitchers can't go past 5 or 6 innings, and the bullpen has an implosion pretty much every night.

    Dusty keeps talking like he's not fazed, but he's got to be going crazy -- because nothing's going right, there are brush fires all over the place, and no sanctuaries from what's looking like a brutal and devastating firestorm. If the firestorm isn't quelled in another month or two, it won't just be Cairo or Ondrusek who are sacrified, it won't be Masset or Stubbs, it won't be Harang or Phillips, it will be Dusty himself and his line management crew who'll be sent to hit the dusty trail.

    How do you rectify this ship? If it was up to me, I'd start with defense. We're getting pinged, dinged and slinged from all corners, so it's time to hunker down in the trenches, and fight back with the one element we know is our greatest existing strength. Time to play Janish as often as Cabrera, Hanigan as often as Hernandez, and Dickerson pretty much daily while resting either Stubbs or Gomes.

    I'm not advocating that Cabrera, Hernandez and Stubbs/Gomes all get benched at the same time but I'd like to see a more defense-oriented than offense-oriented lineup. Our pitching is suspect, both starters and relievers, so we have to adjust accordingly. It shouldn't hurt to make the transition with Janish, Hanigan and Dickerson all wielding a hot bat, so far in 2010.

    Once the defense gels, then the other dominoes will start to fall into place. That won't happen all at once or miraculously, but this team cannot win if it's average, below-average or flailing at every phase of the game. We have the in-house potential to be the most dominant defensive team in the majors, so let's do it, let's get that one foundation stone laid.

    Then we can sort out which of the many available starters are best equipped to carry us forward through the rest of 2010 and on into 2011 and 2012. The bullpen will probably always be a work in progress, as it is for most teams. The offense -- we know Votto and Rolen are golden, and so we're halfway home there as well. Better to be making some progress, however limited, than to be mired in a swamp fending off gators at every turn.

  8. #7
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock View Post
    There's no facet of the game where this team currently excels. The offense is off-kilter, the defense erratic, the starting pitchers can't go past 5 or 6 innings, and the bullpen has an implosion pretty much every night.
    Dusty keeps talking like he's not fazed, but he's got to be going crazy -- because nothing's going right, there are brush fires all over the place, and no sanctuaries from what's looking like a brutal and devastating firestorm. If the firestorm isn't quelled in another month or two, it won't just be Cairo or Ondrusek who are sacrified, it won't be Masset or Stubbs, it won't be Harang or Phillips, it will be Dusty himself and his line management crew who'll be sent to hit the dusty trail.

    How do you rectify this ship? If it was up to me, I'd start with defense. We're getting pinged, dinged and slinged from all corners, so it's time to hunker down in the trenches, and fight back with the one element we know is our greatest existing strength. Time to play Janish as often as Cabrera, Hanigan as often as Hernandez, and Dickerson pretty much daily while resting either Stubbs or Gomes.

    I'm not advocating that Cabrera, Hernandez and Stubbs/Gomes all get benched at the same time but I'd like to see a more defense-oriented than offense-oriented lineup. Our pitching is suspect, both starters and relievers, so we have to adjust accordingly. It shouldn't hurt to make the transition with Janish, Hanigan and Dickerson all wielding a hot bat, so far in 2010.
    Once the defense gels, then the other dominoes will start to fall into place. That won't happen all at once or miraculously, but this team cannot win if it's average, below-average or flailing at every phase of the game. We have the in-house potential to be the most dominant defensive team in the majors, so let's do it, let's get that one foundation stone laid.

    Then we can sort out which of the many available starters are best equipped to carry us forward through the rest of 2010 and on into 2011 and 2012. The bullpen will probably always be a work in progress, as it is for most teams. The offense -- we know Votto and Rolen are golden, and so we're halfway home there as well. Better to be making some progress, however limited, than to be mired in a swamp fending off gators at every turn.

    Agreed. Nice Post.

  9. #8
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    The Reds would be in trouble for one game if two infielders got hurt, but I bet Hanigan could play 3B for a few innings if he had to (Javy did it).

    Not everyone is Javy.
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  10. #9
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Janish to SS as the starter. Immediately. Pray Wlad starts tearing up AAA, as Dorn is now a 1B. Probably where he belongs. Heiesy, Frazier and Francisco are all scuffling, but that didn't stop the Reds from promoting Stubbs last year. And he responded moderately well.

    Supposedly speed and defense don't slump. LF, once again, was not properly addressed. Someone will have to step up, because you can't carry both Stubbs and Janish as starter until Stubbs turns it around or Janish proves he isn't a fluke right now.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  11. #10
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Then, when the team is putting up scores that look like binary code, we can start the "Offense" thread.

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Janish to SS as the starter. Immediately. Pray Wlad starts tearing up AAA, as Dorn is now a 1B. Probably where he belongs. Heiesy, Frazier and Francisco are all scuffling, but that didn't stop the Reds from promoting Stubbs last year. And he responded moderately well.

    Supposedly speed and defense don't slump. LF, once again, was not properly addressed. Someone will have to step up, because you can't carry both Stubbs and Janish as starter until Stubbs turns it around or Janish proves he isn't a fluke right now.
    Just looked to see how Wlad was doing in AAA....wow. .059 OPS.

    Small sample size for sure, but that just looks ugly.

  13. #12
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Because OCab's .628 OPS is keeping the team afloat?

    If he's not offering tremendous offense, and he is serving up horrendous defense, why play him?

    Do you think he'll suddenly be 5 years younger and play good defense again? BTW, he's never actually been a good hitter. 2003, in Montreal, but mostly, meh. I can't for the life of me understand why you'd defend the guy.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  14. #13
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Just looked to see how Wlad was doing in AAA....wow. .059 OPS.

    Small sample size for sure, but that just looks ugly.
    Hence the part where i said "pray Wlad starts tearing up AAA..." His glove is much better than Gomes cement impression of leather. But he has to hit. BTW, how's Gomes hitting? Everything you thought it would be?
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #14
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Because OCab's .628 OPS is keeping the team afloat?

    If he's not offering tremendous offense, and he is serving up horrendous defense, why play him?

    Do you think he'll suddenly be 5 years younger and play good defense again? BTW, he's never actually been a good hitter. 2003, in Montreal, but mostly, meh. I can't for the life of me understand why you'd defend the guy.
    I think his offense will improve. He has had some timely hits, so maybe his OPS isn't telling the entire story. He does have a .208 babip. He and Gomes are also 1/2 on the team in RBI. I know that RBI isn't a perfect stat and blah
    blah blah, but you have to admit these guys are at least doing something out there to help the offense.

  16. #15
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Defense

    I can't see how giving Janish more starts at SS would hurt. Cabrera is a net negative at the moment providing poor defense and offense. Janish would provide good defense at least. Hopefully he could at least match the paltry .628 OPS Cabrera has put up. Put him out there and see.

    LF? A little tougher since none of the candidates are hitting much. Maybe give Nix the starts against RHP for awhile. Much better defense than Gomes anyway.


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