It's perfectly possible, as I believe, that the prospects were of great value but that so is Rolen. I'd suggest Cooper and other analysts actually undervalue Rolen--and that, in estimating the trade, they also undervalued the importance of getting EE moved.
From my side of the isle is that we just want certain prospects to be valued at the right value. I dont care if guys like Stewarts and Alonsos get traded we just hate seeing them being sold short and the general feeling towards that trade, whether it be by us posters or the prospect sites around the next, was that is what happened.
I have a feeling this is how a lot of people felt during the Nats trade with Kearns. Everyone in that trade might have busted but value wasnt equal from a lot of peoples stand points.
I dont want to derail this thread back into that conversation I just wanted to get my general feeling about the topic of the prospect people and the non prospect people.
And I still argue that the Reds and maybe the White Sox were the only true players for Scott Rolen's services and that means the Reds shouldn't have likely paid market value, much less over market value to acquire him. He was forcing a trade out to the Midwest and the Blue Jays said they would make it happen. The Reds paid a steep price in talent. Moving EE could have been as easy as cutting him. The move was financial just as much as it was about talent and thats a shame.
I get what you are saying, but if this were to be true do you really think that Jocketty would have been blind to it and had no idea that this were available? Walt has been in the game for longer than many of us have known what a front office was. He has likely seen every situation a GM could be presented with. He knows what he is doing. I doubt that he had a chance to get Rolen for less.
I'm not sure that I could get behind that. If Rolen was truly forcing a trade to the Midwest and Toronto was going to facilitate the move (as you stated), then the Cincy FO would definitely have recognized this and paid what they had to pay to get him. If the White Sox were in the mix then maybe Walt had to offer Stewart. If there wasn't another team in the mix and Toronto was going to respect Rolen's wishes, I seriously doubt Walt outbid himself.
At this point, it sure doesn't appear he gave up a whole lot.I think he overpaid because he wanted Rolen badly and the Blue Jays knew he did.
I just don't agree he overpaid, and that has to do with what I think of Rolen.
Personally, I could care less about anything other than today or this year, and I could also care less if it was a bad trade in the eyes of those that look at values. Fact is, right now, the Reds are a better team with Rolen than they were without him. His ability and attitude have made a huge difference.
As for what was given up, sure, you can what if, speculate, argue, fuss and fight it to death, and I"m sure the "equal value" isn't in the Reds favor, but right now, in the present, when it all really matters most, it's a huge win for the Reds. I'll worry about the future when the future gets here, but I'm glad we got Rolen, because he makes us better. All Stewart and Roenicke give is potential.
Walt Jocketty said that the Blue Jays refused to part with Scott Rolen unless the deal included Zach Stewart. Some may call it overpaying, but as of now, it looks like the Reds received more than they gave up, and if you ask me, that doesn't sound like 'overpaying' at all.
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |