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Thread: Zach Stewart's progress

  1. #166
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    No doubt. Guys like Stewart are the reason TINSTAAPP was created. The Chapmans and Strauburgs may become aces, but those that come out of nowhere generally return shortly thereafter.

    Stewart's success last season screamed to be taken with a dose of salt. He'd never pitched with those numbers before-- not in college nor in the minor leagues. Now, he's struggling to find his game again.

    Doesn't mean he won't be good. It means he wasn't quite as good-- and certainly not as finished-- as those prospect mavens thought he was.

    And that's okay, too. I can remember a couple of them insisted the A's got a steal of a deal when they dealt McGuire to St. Louis. It's the nature of the beast, to look at the next great thing rather than appreciate those that have proven in the past what they can do.
    Well said, couldn't agree more.
    Go BLUE!!!

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  3. #167
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    It's perfectly possible, as I believe, that the prospects were of great value but that so is Rolen. I'd suggest Cooper and other analysts actually undervalue Rolen--and that, in estimating the trade, they also undervalued the importance of getting EE moved.

  4. #168
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    From my side of the isle is that we just want certain prospects to be valued at the right value. I dont care if guys like Stewarts and Alonsos get traded we just hate seeing them being sold short and the general feeling towards that trade, whether it be by us posters or the prospect sites around the next, was that is what happened.

    I have a feeling this is how a lot of people felt during the Nats trade with Kearns. Everyone in that trade might have busted but value wasnt equal from a lot of peoples stand points.

    I dont want to derail this thread back into that conversation I just wanted to get my general feeling about the topic of the prospect people and the non prospect people.

  5. #169
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    It's perfectly possible, as I believe, that the prospects were of great value but that so is Rolen. I'd suggest Cooper and other analysts actually undervalue Rolen--and that, in estimating the trade, they also undervalued the importance of getting EE moved.
    And I still argue that the Reds and maybe the White Sox were the only true players for Scott Rolen's services and that means the Reds shouldn't have likely paid market value, much less over market value to acquire him. He was forcing a trade out to the Midwest and the Blue Jays said they would make it happen. The Reds paid a steep price in talent. Moving EE could have been as easy as cutting him. The move was financial just as much as it was about talent and thats a shame.

  6. #170
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And I still argue that the Reds and maybe the White Sox were the only true players for Scott Rolen's services and that means the Reds shouldn't have likely paid market value, much less over market value to acquire him. He was forcing a trade out to the Midwest and the Blue Jays said they would make it happen. The Reds paid a steep price in talent. Moving EE could have been as easy as cutting him. The move was financial just as much as it was about talent and thats a shame.
    I get what you are saying, but if this were to be true do you really think that Jocketty would have been blind to it and had no idea that this were available? Walt has been in the game for longer than many of us have known what a front office was. He has likely seen every situation a GM could be presented with. He knows what he is doing. I doubt that he had a chance to get Rolen for less.

  7. #171
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I get what you are saying, but if this were to be true do you really think that Jocketty would have been blind to it and had no idea that this were available? Walt has been in the game for longer than many of us have known what a front office was. He has likely seen every situation a GM could be presented with. He knows what he is doing. I doubt that he had a chance to get Rolen for less.
    I think he overpaid because he wanted Rolen badly and the Blue Jays knew he did.

  8. #172
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think he overpaid because he wanted Rolen badly and the Blue Jays knew he did.
    I'm not sure that I could get behind that. If Rolen was truly forcing a trade to the Midwest and Toronto was going to facilitate the move (as you stated), then the Cincy FO would definitely have recognized this and paid what they had to pay to get him. If the White Sox were in the mix then maybe Walt had to offer Stewart. If there wasn't another team in the mix and Toronto was going to respect Rolen's wishes, I seriously doubt Walt outbid himself.

  9. #173
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    I think he overpaid because he wanted Rolen badly and the Blue Jays knew he did.
    At this point, it sure doesn't appear he gave up a whole lot.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  10. #174
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    At this point, it sure doesn't appear he gave up a whole lot.
    Even if all three players retire tomorrow, it doesn't change the value that he gave up at the time and could have used to acquire something else.

  11. #175
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    I just don't agree he overpaid, and that has to do with what I think of Rolen.

  12. #176
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    At this point, it sure doesn't appear he gave up a whole lot.
    With all do respect that matters zero.

  13. #177
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Personally, I could care less about anything other than today or this year, and I could also care less if it was a bad trade in the eyes of those that look at values. Fact is, right now, the Reds are a better team with Rolen than they were without him. His ability and attitude have made a huge difference.

    As for what was given up, sure, you can what if, speculate, argue, fuss and fight it to death, and I"m sure the "equal value" isn't in the Reds favor, but right now, in the present, when it all really matters most, it's a huge win for the Reds. I'll worry about the future when the future gets here, but I'm glad we got Rolen, because he makes us better. All Stewart and Roenicke give is potential.

  14. #178
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Walt Jocketty said that the Blue Jays refused to part with Scott Rolen unless the deal included Zach Stewart. Some may call it overpaying, but as of now, it looks like the Reds received more than they gave up, and if you ask me, that doesn't sound like 'overpaying' at all.

  15. #179
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Walt Jocketty said that the Blue Jays refused to part with Scott Rolen unless the deal included Zach Stewart. Some may call it overpaying, but as of now, it looks like the Reds received more than they gave up, and if you ask me, that doesn't sound like 'overpaying' at all.
    Maybe because the Reds also wanted $4M in the deal, cash.

  16. #180
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    Re: Zach Stewart's progress

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe because the Reds also wanted $4M in the deal, cash.
    That, and they insisted that EE be dumped on them.


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