Zach Stewart's progress

[GIDP]

Right because his footwork at 2nd would have been stellar.

His issue was throwing the ball. I didnt say it would have worked but its just something I said I would have maybe tried him at.

[Cyclone792]

I can't believe anybody at this point would even question what a huge upgrade Rolen has been over EE.

I liked Encarnacion, but each time he would appear to flash serious promise, something would happen that would disappoint and set him back. Similarly, I also was cautiously optimistic on Stewart and would rather have seen the Reds keep him if at all possible, but thus far he hasn't done anything to warrant anybody missing him.

Scott Rolen, meanwhile, had always been one of my favorite non-Reds. I'm not a person who dives too much into "little things" or "intangibles" but Scott Rolen plays baseball how I prefer to see ballplayers play. In short, the guy just does everything well, and I love that in a player.

Despite not having great speed, he's one of the best baserunners I've ever seen in terms of moving from first to third on singles, scoring from second on singles, etc. Quite a few years ago I remember seeing some statistics that tried to quantify that type of baserunning, and not surprisingly Rolen's name was always amongst the leaders. It also hasn't surprised me that I'm seeing guys like Votto and Bruce take a similar approach on the bases as Rolen, especially since Rolen was acquired. There's value in that type of stuff somewhere.

FWIW, I'm not buying the UZR numbers for Rolen this year. He's arguably one of the greatest defensive third basemen ever, and while his range has declined somewhat due to age, he's still flashing leather over there that I haven't seen from a Reds third baseman in I don't know how long.

The Reds made that trade to fix a perceived weakness at third base, a weakness I probably agree existed, and they targeted a guy who would be able to help in a whole bunch of ways. So far, I have to believe the trade has worked out exactly how the Reds hoped when they made the deal. Moving forward, so long as Rolen remains healthy and on the field, I have to believe the trade will work out exactly how the Reds hoped.

There isn't a question in my mind, the Reds are a better team right now in 2010 due to that trade.

[GIDP]

Roll your eyes all you want. His head and heart were just not in the game, despite his obvious talents.

Ok.

[pedro]

His issue was throwing the ball. I didnt say it would have worked but its just something I said I would have maybe tried him at.

I don't understand how you can think that a guy who is incapable of making good throws from third would be able to make many of the throws required to play second base such as turning a DP or going up the middle and throwing across his body. That just doesn't make sense to me. I think moving him to second would have been an incredibly bad idea. I'd venture to guess the Reds did too and that's why they never tried it. Left field makes more sense but I don't think the Reds liked his makeup as a player and that's why they cut bait.

[pedro]

I liked Encarnacion, but each time he would appear to flash serious promise, something would happen that would disappoint and set him back. Similarly, I also was cautiously optimistic on Stewart and would rather have seen the Reds keep him if at all possible, but thus far he hasn't done anything to warrant anybody missing him.

Scott Rolen, meanwhile, had always been one of my favorite non-Reds. I'm not a person who dives too much into "little things" or "intangibles" but Scott Rolen plays baseball how I prefer to see ballplayers play. In short, the guy just does everything well, and I love that in a player.

Despite not having great speed, he's one of the best baserunners I've ever seen in terms of moving from first to third on singles, scoring from second on singles, etc. Quite a few years ago I remember seeing some statistics that tried to quantify that type of baserunning, and not surprisingly Rolen's name was always amongst the leaders. It also hasn't surprised me that I'm seeing guys like Votto and Bruce take a similar approach on the bases as Rolen, especially since Rolen was acquired. There's value in that type of stuff somewhere.

FWIW, I'm not buying the UZR numbers for Rolen this year. He's arguably one of the greatest defensive third basemen ever, and while his range has declined somewhat due to age, he's still flashing leather over there that I haven't seen from a Reds third baseman in I don't know how long.

The Reds made that trade to fix a perceived weakness at third base, a weakness I probably agree existed, and they targeted a guy who would be able to help in a whole bunch of ways. So far, I have to believe the trade has worked out exactly how the Reds hoped when they made the deal. Moving forward, so long as Rolen remains healthy and on the field, I have to believe the trade will work out exactly how the Reds hoped.

There isn't a question in my mind, the Reds are a better team right now in 2010 due to that trade.

I agree whole heartedly.

[GIDP]

I just said it would be worth a shot. His issue was throwing across the diamond almost like he over thought it. I dont want to be a huge issue just saying I thought it was worth a look.

The view of Edwin as a person is fine with me. I dont care im just talking about maybe trying to find other places for him to play. Its not that big of a topic.

[pedro]

I just said it would be worth a shot. His issue was throwing across the diamond almost like he over thought it. I dont want to be a huge issue just saying I thought it was worth a look.

The view of Edwin as a person is fine with me. I dont care im just talking about maybe trying to find other places for him to play. Its not that big of a topic.

I'm not knocking him as a person or suggesting he's stupid. He never seemed like a jerk or anything and I don't know the guy. Some guys are just more mentally aware on the field than others and EE just wasn't one of those guys.

[GIDP]

I'm not knocking him as a person or suggesting he's stupid. He never seemed like a jerk or anything and I don't know the guy. Some guys are just more mentally aware on the field than others and EE just wasn't one of those guys.

I didnt think you mean it like that either.

[kaldaniels]

2 Things that people talk about as fact but really aren't

1) What teams were truly in on a Rolen deal last year (and if you take the word of a big league GM at 100 percent you're misguided)

2) What Zach Stewart's true worth was in late 2009

[camisadelgolf]

I doubt this is true, because well, its against baseball's rules. If the extension were agreed upon, it would have been done as part of the trade.

TheNext44 already covered it, but another scenario is this: Scott Rolen approached the Blue Jays and said he wanted to go back to a team in the Midwest. He may have also mentioned that he wouldn't extend a deal with the Jays, but he was open to doing an extension with either the Reds, White Sox, or some other team. The Reds aren't allowed to ask Rolen about that, but if the Blue Jays reveal that part to the Reds, is it technically breaking a rule?

[kpresidente]

Uh, huh. Forget what the numbers say. Numbers lie. Rolen's been so much better because, well, you know, I didn't like EE. He didn't try. He didn't talk to the media enough. And, you know, it's not scoring more runs than the other guy that wins games, it's how hard you try, and if you, you know, love the game and stuff, that's what really matters.

HAHA!

but Scott Rolen plays baseball how I prefer to see ballplayers play

Dusty would be proud.

[HokieRed]

TheNext44 already covered it, but another scenario is this: Scott Rolen approached the Blue Jays and said he wanted to go back to a team in the Midwest. He may have also mentioned that he wouldn't extend a deal with the Jays, but he was open to doing an extension with either the Reds, White Sox, or some other team. The Reds aren't allowed to ask Rolen about that, but if the Blue Jays reveal that part to the Reds, is it technically breaking a rule?

I think this is a good reading of what perhaps happened but it would seem to me that no revealing needed even to be done--what you suggest just seems implicit in Rolen's desire for the trade. I suspect nothing needed to be said.

[Plus Plus]

Uh, huh. Forget what the numbers say. Numbers lie. Rolen's been so much better because, well, you know, I didn't like EE. He didn't try. He didn't talk to the media enough. And, you know, it's not scoring more runs than the other guy that wins games, it's how hard you try, and if you, you know, love the game and stuff, that's what really matters.

HAHA!



Dusty would be proud.

EE is terrible at baseball and Rolen is very good. Even a cursory look at their numbers will display that vividly. I'm not sure if there is anything more to be discussed between the two players beyond that.

[pedro]

Uh, huh. Forget what the numbers say. Numbers lie. Rolen's been so much better because, well, you know, I didn't like EE. He didn't try. He didn't talk to the media enough. And, you know, it's not scoring more runs than the other guy that wins games, it's how hard you try, and if you, you know, love the game and stuff, that's what really matters.

HAHA!



Dusty would be proud.

Just because you don't agree doesn't give you license to act like a jerk. It doesn't bring anything to the conversation.

Further, numbers don't even back up your argument. EE has been bad for the last two years.

[GIDP]

and I cant get into the ORG because im "confrontational"