Drew Stubbs: If this keeps up, what to do?

[nate]

For me, this is a perfect example of Dusty's primary failure as a manager. He simply cannot manage the team he actually has, only the team he wishes he had and the player he wishes his guys were.

Exactly.

[pedro]

I have serious doubts if there is a single manager working in the majors today that many here would be happy with.

[Brutus]

For me, this is a perfect example of Dusty's primary failure as a manager. He simply cannot manage the team he actually has, only the team he wishes he had and the player he wishes his guys were.

Might be the best synopsis of Dusty I've ever heard.

[TRF]

This whole thing about the September stats is overblown.

Pitchers don't stop throwing hard. They don't suddenly have less movement. Players don't stop trying to win.

It's still major league pitching. The Reds did play three playoff teams and a total of four contenders over the last 4-6 weeks of the year. It's not like Stubbs was playing against one team the entire time.

And it was the Pirates. And there were September callups. Some of those guys were pitchers. Some teams are playing out the string. And sometimes guys will flash a skillset they have never shown before.

[dougdirt]

And it was the Pirates. And there were September callups. Some of those guys were pitchers. Some teams are playing out the string. And sometimes guys will flash a skillset they have never shown before.

You continue to say Stubbs has never showed that skillset before and you continue to be wrong. Every scout who ever watched him told you about that skillset. All of them. The difference was he showed it more often than he has ever done so in a month and a half.

[jojo]

I have serious doubts if there is a single manager working in the majors today that many here would be happy with.

They're all pretty much interchangeable...

[TheNext44]

They're all pretty much interchangeable...

Exactly.

Only some are more frustrating to watch than others.

[lollipopcurve]

And it was the Pirates. And there were September callups. Some of those guys were pitchers. Some teams are playing out the string. And sometimes guys will flash a skillset they have never shown before.

Pitchers Stubbs homered off in 09:

Nolasco
Oswalt
Mike Gonzalez
Y Bazardo
Zach Duke
Jessie Chavez
Howry
D McCutchen

The power was legit. Most of the pitchers were, too.

[TRF]

You continue to say Stubbs has never showed that skillset before and you continue to be wrong. Every scout who ever watched him told you about that skillset. All of them. The difference was he showed it more often than he has ever done so in a month and a half.

Yeah. his swing screamed power in AA and AAA.

He had the tools, not the training. He doesn't know how to hit for power, except by accident. You can project the tools forever, but at some point, results matter.

Again, I think he COULD be a power hitter. I'd love for him to become Adam Dunn offensively and the thin version Andruw Jones defensively. But he has a sub .300 SLG, and that translates to is if a power hitter doesn't hit for power, then he isn't a power hitter.

"Could be" isn't "is".

[edabbs44]

Yeah. his swing screamed power in AA and AAA.

He had the tools, not the training. He doesn't know how to hit for power, except by accident. You can project the tools forever, but at some point, results matter.

Again, I think he COULD be a power hitter. I'd love for him to become Adam Dunn offensively and the thin version Andruw Jones defensively. But he has a sub .300 SLG, and that translates to is if a power hitter doesn't hit for power, then he isn't a power hitter.

"Could be" isn't "is".

Stubbs has the ability to hit the ball far. To this point, that's all he has on his power hitter resume.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Stubbs has started 42 PAs with an 0-1 count, versus 25 PAs with a 1-0 count. Unsure how many of those first pitch strikes he swung at.

I certainly didn't research it. Just going by what I've seen and heard. Stating a specific count was probably a mistake, but suffice it to say that he lets fat pitches sail past "early" in the count.

[lollipopcurve]

I'd love for him to become Adam Dunn offensively and the thin version Andruw Jones defensively.

This is a ridiculous assertion because no one on the planet believes it could happen.

You need to accept that he has power and he has shown he can use it against major league pitching. Obviously, it's not a tool he's shown any consistency with. But consistency generally eludes young players. It's too soon to know what kind of numbers Stubbs will put up over time -- there's no doubt about that. Yet, he has shown that he is capable of more than you anticipated, I'd say.

[TRF]

Pitchers Stubbs homered off in 09:

Nolasco
Oswalt
Mike Gonzalez
Y Bazardo
Zach Duke
Jessie Chavez
Howry
D McCutchen

The power was legit. Most of the pitchers were, too.

Nolasco, 2009 5.06 ERA, 23 HR in 188 IP. meh
Oswalt 2009 4.12 ERA 19 HR. Bad year for him, but a true ace.
Bazardo, 2009 7.88 ERA 1.84 WHIP. I wouldn't let him pitch in AA
Duke 2009 4.06 ERA 23 HR. His best year, but the guy is incredibly average.
Gonzalez 2009 2.42 ERA 1.20 WHIP Closer wannabe, but good/great setup guy.
Howry 2009 3.39 ERA 1.15 WHIP 63.2 IP. good reliever, stingy with the longball.
McCutchen 2009 6 starts 4.21 ERA all came as a September callup (shocking!)

Overall? meh. only Oswalt and 2 of the relievers stand out. And Oswalt had a very bad day, touched up for four earned runs. very un-Oswalt like.

Except for Oswalt, I wouldn't want a single one of those starters pitching for the Reds.

It's not an exceptional group.

[TRF]

This is a ridiculous assertion because no one on the planet believes it could happen.

You need to accept that he has power and he has shown he can use it against major league pitching. Obviously, it's not a tool he's shown any consistency with. But consistency generally eludes young players. It's too soon to know what kind of numbers Stubbs will put up over time -- there's no doubt about that. Yet, he has shown that he is capable of more than you anticipated, I'd say.

How has he shown that? with a .606 OPS?

And your entire response dictates it could happen. With the right cxoaches, the right approach, and the right spot in the lineup, he very well could be an Eric Davis TYPE of player. HR's and SB's. But he's not Juan Pierre, no matter how much Dusty wants him to be.

[dfs]

I think the real issue is that Stubbs just isn't a leadoff hitter. The only thing about him that says leadoff hitter is his speed. He's big and strong, and has a long swing. He should be hitting in the middle of the order. ...

You're saying he should be playing someplace other than CF?