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Thread: Drew Stubbs

  1. #166
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Maybe it's just my perception but it seems to me that Stubbs has significantly contributed to a lot of wins this year through his hitting defense and base running. I don't have any stats to back that up but it seems like he's been in the middle of game winning rallies a lot.

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  3. #167
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    What is funny is that I am growing accustomed to whenever the ball goes in the air, I expect Stubbs to catch it. When Morse hit that gap shot double off Cordero in the ninth, I was expecting Stubbs to run it down. He is spoiling me.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  4. #168
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    The only complaint I have with Stubbs defense, and it really isn't much of a complaint, is he plays a deeper CF than most great CF's I have seen. He tracks the ball very well into the corners but he doesn't get to many bloop hits that shallower CF's get to.

  5. #169
    I Hate Cleveland fugowitribe's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    If I had to complain about Drew Stubbs, I would bring up his play around the wall. He and the other Reds' OFers are not exactly the most graceful when it comes to balls hit off or to the wall. It seems like they always get there, but then their nerves or excitment get the best of them and we end up with walk off Grand Slams and Crashes into the wall as the ball bounces out into play.
    WE DON'T, WE DON'T, WE DON'T MESS AROUND HEY!

  6. #170
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Maybe it's just my perception but it seems to me that Stubbs has significantly contributed to a lot of wins this year through his hitting defense and base running. I don't have any stats to back that up but it seems like he's been in the middle of game winning rallies a lot.
    He currently is at 0.6 WAR. I think UZR is selling him short in CF so that's probably a little lighter than his true contribution. As the season goes on, UZR will capture his defensive value more accurately and he could end up with the 2-ish WAR projection.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #171
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Is Stubbs an example of player "development" i.e. he wasn't an instant star, but by being allowed to keep playing he has shown and developed his skills and is becoming a contributing (at least) player? Is this how "player development" is supposed to work?

  8. #172
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by UKFlounder View Post
    Is Stubbs an example of player "development" i.e. he wasn't an instant star, but by being allowed to keep playing he has shown and developed his skills and is becoming a contributing (at least) player? Is this how "player development" is supposed to work?
    I don't think so. The minors are for development, and he was miscast in the minors as a leadoff hitter. The power potential was there, but never used. Lower in the order he seems to be allowing his instincts to surface rather than what he was "taught" he should be.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  9. #173
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Good point.

    Still I like that they put him in the lineup and let him play, instead of benching or sending him down when he struggled. (Of course, I recognize that part of that is that last year's team was bad enough to be able to afford that and even at the start of this year, there were questions about the Reds ability to compete. A true contender may not have been able to be so patient.)

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I don't think so. The minors are for development, and he was miscast in the minors as a leadoff hitter. The power potential was there, but never used. Lower in the order he seems to be allowing his instincts to surface rather than what he was "taught" he should be.

  10. #174
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I don't think so. The minors are for development, and he was miscast in the minors as a leadoff hitter. The power potential was there, but never used. Lower in the order he seems to be allowing his instincts to surface rather than what he was "taught" he should be.
    Your opinion of Stubbs and his development has generated a lot challenges from others around here but to your credit, recent happenings continue to support your case

  11. #175
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Your opinion of Stubbs and his development has generated a lot challenges from others around here but to your credit, recent happenings continue to support your case
    I'd remind him that he insisted Stubbs didn't have any power, and clearly that's not the case

    I still think it's silly to suggest Stubbs can't be an effective leadoff hitter based on what is happening this year. I think the only thing we can conclude (yet) is that he's young and is more comfortable (at least for now) without the pressure of being a leadoff hitter.

    Once Stubbs is confident in his abilities, begins recognizing pitches, makes adjustments to how he's pitched, etc., there is nothing stopping him from being a good leadoff guy. He values patience, has speed and would help distract pitchers from the middle of the Reds' order. What's happening right now is not an indictment on where he ultimately should hit, but where he feels more comfortable now.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #176
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I'd remind him that he insisted Stubbs didn't have any power, and clearly that's not the case

    I still think it's silly to suggest Stubbs can't be an effective leadoff hitter based on what is happening this year. I think the only thing we can conclude (yet) is that he's young and is more comfortable (at least for now) without the pressure of being a leadoff hitter.

    Once Stubbs is confident in his abilities, begins recognizing pitches, makes adjustments to how he's pitched, etc., there is nothing stopping him from being a good leadoff guy. He values patience, has speed and would help distract pitchers from the middle of the Reds' order. What's happening right now is not an indictment on where he ultimately should hit, but where he feels more comfortable now.
    I'm feeling more and more strongly that the 2 spot might be his long term home.
    He may not have the 'contact' bat that some prefer there. If the leadoff guy is on...he has the patience to let him steal, the power to get him home, and the ability to stay out of the DP on ground balls.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  13. #177
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Your opinion of Stubbs and his development has generated a lot challenges from others around here but to your credit, recent happenings continue to support your case
    I think there is a human element to the game that often gets overlooked. Much like Todd Coffey wasn't suited to close, but often excelled in the setup role. Sometimes players shouldn't hit in certain slots.

    Brandon Phillips as the #2 hitter: .304 .370 .478 .848

    Yes, it's 115 AB's, but for whatever reason, he's been tremendous there. Is his approach different? His mindset? I have no idea, but it sure is working.


    Stubbs as the #7 hitter, 91 AB's .330 .386 .571 .957. That is an astounding line. It's a Joey Votto line. Add in his defense, and he's likely the team's best player.

    Do you have any idea how hard that was for me to type?!

    And all it took was about a month's worth of AB's, losing PT to Dickerson trying to figure out how to get him going. All it took was for Baker to see he's not a leadoff hitter. I can't say enough about how he has managed Stubbs this year. I wouldn't move him up higher in the lineup this year at all. Next year, I'd try him in the 6th spot, but for now, for this year, he'd be written in pen at #7
    Suck it up cupcake.

  14. #178
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I'd remind him that he insisted Stubbs didn't have any power, and clearly that's not the case

    I still think it's silly to suggest Stubbs can't be an effective leadoff hitter based on what is happening this year. I think the only thing we can conclude (yet) is that he's young and is more comfortable (at least for now) without the pressure of being a leadoff hitter.

    Once Stubbs is confident in his abilities, begins recognizing pitches, makes adjustments to how he's pitched, etc., there is nothing stopping him from being a good leadoff guy. He values patience, has speed and would help distract pitchers from the middle of the Reds' order. What's happening right now is not an indictment on where he ultimately should hit, but where he feels more comfortable now.
    What I said, and you can look it up, is if you have power but you don't use it, then you don't have power. I stand by that.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #179
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    What I said, and you can look it up, is if you have power but you don't use it, then you don't have power. I stand by that.
    Right. And I get that argument. But you were concluding that because he wasn't using it in the minor leagues that therefore it didn't exist. The crux of the issue was that many players don't start developing their power until closer to 'prime' age and thereby it doesn't start showing until they're in the majors.

    The old adage, "minor league doubles become major league homers," applies here. If you look at Stubbs' extra base hit percentage from the minors until now, it's virtually the same - but those doubles are going now for home runs.

    Major League XBH% - 7.5%
    Minor League XBH% - 7.6%

    The difference is that he's now hitting homers at 3.5% in the majors versus 1.6% in the minors.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #180
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    What I said, and you can look it up, is if you have power but you don't use it, then you don't have power. I stand by that.
    And I still say its wrong. Willy Taveras does not have power. Corey Patterson does. Neither guy used it in Cincinnati, but one guy had it and one guy didn't. There is a large difference between using it and having the ability to use it. Some guys don't have it. Some guys don't use it. Large difference. Stubbs has always had it. He just didn't always use it.


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