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Thread: Drew Stubbs

  1. #136
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Who wants Stubbs waived? Who says Cabrera is MVP? Must every position taken on this board be exaggerated until they have no meaning?

    Why does one have to be celebrated at the expense of the other?

    Seems to me, Dusty made a cagey move in getting Stubbs out of the leadoff spot, a position he is not particularly well suited for at the moment and perhaps maybe never. The human element, it is a factor. And Cabrera seems to fully be embracing his role there and actually has tailored his approach to the slot.

    I just don't get being down on either player at this juncture.
    I wonder what the title of this thread implies?

    Cabrera has done well, no arguments here. But he's Jeff Keppinger defensively now and can't draw the walk over the course of a season. That is casue for concern over the long haul.

    I'm enjoying Miguel Cairos run too....but not going to sign him to an extention just yet.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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  3. #137
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Cabrera has done well, no arguments here. But he's Jeff Keppinger defensively now and can't draw the walk over the course of a season. That is casue for concern over the long haul.
    I love a baseless comparison as much as the next guy, but this one tops 'em all

    Keppinger UZR/150: -67.2
    Cabrera UZR/150: -2.7

    Cabrera isn't half as bad in the field as this board makes him out to be.

  4. #138
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    I hate that this thread is the Stubbs thread that keeps getting bumped.

    "Whoops."

    Couldn't be happier to see him playing well. I really like him, even if this thread doesn't show it. Love his tools.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  5. #139
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I hate that this thread is the Stubbs thread that keeps getting bumped.

    "Whoops."

    Couldn't be happier to see him playing well. I really like him, even if this thread doesn't show it. Love his tools.
    No shame in it.

    I think the "lesson" to be learned (if there is one) is that we shouldn't judge based off one month's work. If that was the case then:

    Cabrera should have been cut based on D
    Gomes should have been cut
    Stubbs should have been sent to AAA
    Cairo should have been executed
    Harang should have been mysteriously DL'd
    Bruce should have been shipped out
    Nix should have been sent to the curb.

    SSS can be a you know what.

  6. #140
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I love a baseless comparison as much as the next guy, but this one tops 'em all

    Keppinger UZR/150: -67.2
    Cabrera UZR/150: -2.7

    Cabrera isn't half as bad in the field as this board makes him out to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    SSS can be a you know what.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #141
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I love a baseless comparison as much as the next guy, but this one tops 'em all

    Keppinger UZR/150: -67.2
    Cabrera UZR/150: -2.7

    Cabrera isn't half as bad in the field as this board makes him out to be.
    Keppinger and Cabrera both make the plays 1 step either way, and that is about it.

    OC obviously has more savvy for the position, and that shouldn't be overlooked. But he and Gomes are 'by far' the weakest links on defense. Over the long haul, left field has proven to be a position where a great team can carry a subpar defender. Shortstop is not necessarily the case.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  8. #142
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I love a baseless comparison as much as the next guy, but this one tops 'em all

    Keppinger UZR/150: -67.2
    Cabrera UZR/150: -2.7

    Cabrera isn't half as bad in the field as this board makes him out to be.
    So, which is it?

    You lean on UZR here and in Gomes case it's not applicable?

  9. #143
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post

    Cabrera isn't half as bad in the field as this board makes him out to be.
    Cabrera is a good fielder - at least when he can get to a ball. He makes most of the routine plays. At one time or another, he got to quite a few balls. But those days are long gone.

    According to Fangraphs, here are the plays made outside of the designated zones that shortstops are expected to make plays more than 50% of the time (by qualified shortstop)...

    1. Stephen Drew (27 out of zone plays)
    2. Erick Aybar (26)
    3. Alex Gonzalez (25)
    4. Marco Scutaro (24)
    5. Ronny Cedeno (23)
    ....
    21. J.J.Hardy (12)
    22. Cliff Pennington (9)
    23. Orlando Cabrera (7)

    That's the list. Cabrera is dead last among qualified shortstops in making plays out of the 'routine' zones. Not only is he last, but it's by a remarkably wide margin.

    Cabrera's range is as bad as they say it is. Is he a bad fielder? No - and that's not been the crux of the debate. But his range leaves a whole lot to be desired.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #144
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    So, which is it?

    You lean on UZR here and in Gomes case it's not applicable?
    No. For the umpteenth time, I have no problem with UZR. I have have a problem with blending it with offensive stats to come up with a number that determines a players value.

  11. #145
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    That was the first example I grabbed. Admittedly it was not good evidence, but my point was that I'd be surprised if there is a single person on this board that truly thinks Jeff Keppinger is as good as OC on defense.

  12. #146
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Cabrera is a good fielder - at least when he can get to a ball. He makes most of the routine plays. At one time or another, he got to quite a few balls. But those days are long gone.

    According to Fangraphs, here are the plays made outside of the designated zones that shortstops are expected to make plays more than 50% of the time (by qualified shortstop)...

    1. Stephen Drew (27 out of zone plays)
    2. Erick Aybar (26)
    3. Alex Gonzalez (25)
    4. Marco Scutaro (24)
    5. Ronny Cedeno (23)
    ....
    21. J.J.Hardy (12)
    22. Cliff Pennington (9)
    23. Orlando Cabrera (7)

    That's the list. Cabrera is dead last among qualified shortstops in making plays out of the 'routine' zones. Not only is he last, but it's by a remarkably wide margin.

    Cabrera's range is as bad as they say it is. Is he a bad fielder? No - and that's not been the crux of the debate. But his range leaves a whole lot to be desired.
    I can't disagree with any of this. His first week in the field was absolutely brutal. I was nervous about him this year. Since then he has been A-okay with me defensively (aside from that 2nd inning last night, Geez OC).

  13. #147
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    No. For the umpteenth time, I have no problem with UZR. I have have a problem with blending it with offensive stats to come up with a number that determines a players value.
    I totally agree, I was just pondering which path you were on based on the other post.

  14. #148
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    No. For the umpteenth time, I have no problem with UZR. I have have a problem with blending it with offensive stats to come up with a number that determines a players value.
    But UZR is a large component of WAR. If you don't get that one right, the other isn't right.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  15. #149
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    But UZR is a large component of WAR. If you don't get that one right, the other isn't right.
    I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here.

    My stance is, I'm fine with UZR when comparing players to other players when the sample size is sufficient. Not a fan of WAR because I think it drastically overstates the effect of defense. I'm sure many out there completely disagree with that, and have much more scientific reasons, but to again use the example I used earlier, I think it's silly to think that Ryan Braun is as valuable as Nyjer Morgan.

  16. #150
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Uncle

    Now OPSing .743.


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