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Thread: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

  1. #1
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    ...highlights folly of keeping win/loss stats

    According to this article. Excerpt:

    After six starts, Greinke is 0-3. He's on pace to finish with 214 strikeouts, an 0.98 WHIP, an ERA of 2.27 ... and a record of 0-19.
    Discuss!
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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  3. #2
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    ...highlights folly of keeping win/loss stats

    According to this article. Excerpt:



    Discuss!
    I don't think its folly to keep those stats, but I do think its folly to judge a pitcher solely on those stats.

    However it is astounding to see those number projections.

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Offer the Royals Micah Owings for him. He's on pace to be 13-0.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    He should be throwing shut outs.

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  6. #5
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Let me quibble with the article I posted. This bit in particular:

    Baseball is 50 percent hitting and 50 percent defense, with pitching taking up a large portion of defense's share. I don't know how much. Even if it's 49.9 percent, it should tell you that no one person deserves a "W" or an "L" hung on their record. Maybe a manager. Again, beside the point.
    See, I don't agree with "pitching taking up a large portion of defense's share." Once pitches are put in play, they're the defense's responsibility. I don't think, on average, a starting pitcher is responsible for getting the majority of hitters he faces out. I would say that the majority of outs are the responsibility of the defense. True, great pitchers probably strike out around half of the batters they face but even then, does that mean they're responsible for the majority of run prevention?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #6
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Let me quibble with the article I posted. This bit in particular:



    See, I don't agree with "pitching taking up a large portion of defense's share." Once pitches are put in play, they're the defense's responsibility. I don't think, on average, a starting pitcher is responsible for getting the majority of hitters he faces out. I would say that the majority of outs are the responsibility of the defense. True, great pitchers probably strike out around half of the batters they face but even then, does that mean they're responsible for the majority of run prevention?
    Bad pitchers let up more hits than good pitchers. And it has less to do with defense than it does with them not being very good.

    I think that is his point.

  8. #7
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Maybe KC will trade him for prospects to NYY/PHI/LAD/LAA/BOS after the ASB?
    /r/reds

  9. #8
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not.

    Code:
    Pitcher	W-L	ERA	IP	H	HR	BB	K	WHIP	SLG	OBA	AVG	
    Greinke	16-8	2.16	229.1	195	11	51	242	1.07	336	276	230
    Verlander 19-9	3.45	240	219	20	63	269	1.18	369	295	243
    but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper).
    Last edited by Ravenlord; 05-04-2010 at 01:30 AM.
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    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not.

    Code:
    Pitcher	W-L	ERA	IP	H	HR	BB	K	WHIP	SLG	OBA	AVG	
    Greinke	16-8	2.16	229.1	195	11	51	242	1.07	336	276	230
    Verlander 19-9	3.45	240	219	20	63	269	1.18	369	295	243
    but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper).
    I honestly don't remember much of a campaign for Verlander, there wasn't even that much of one for Felix. To be fair, almost everyone, including the voters, got it right for once.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Goes to show how bad the Royals are.

  12. #11
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not.

    Code:
    Pitcher	W-L	ERA	IP	H	HR	BB	K	WHIP	SLG	OBA	AVG	
    Greinke	16-8	2.16	229.1	195	11	51	242	1.07	336	276	230
    Verlander 19-9	3.45	240	219	20	63	269	1.18	369	295	243
    but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper).
    But Greinke did win the AL Cy Young! Along with Lincecum's victory, I actually thought the awards went to the right two pitchers last year.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    . True, great pitchers probably strike out around half of the batters they face but even then, does that mean they're responsible for the majority of run prevention?
    Half?

    That would mean that truly great pitchers would be getting about 2 K's per inning.

  14. #13
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Half?

    That would mean that truly great pitchers would be getting about 2 K's per inning.
    True, so it's even fewer batters that pitchers retire on their own.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  15. #14
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace...

    Jocketty should offer Rosales and Stewart for Greinke. Maybe Moore would bite? For sweetner, Jocketty could offer up Hamilton.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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