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Thread: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

  1. #16
    Member forfreelin04's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    So why were you so high on him?
    Yeah, Doug?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    I'm guessing the skill set was to alluring to pass up?

    Kind of like the really pretty girl you date in High School. She's cool, funny, and smart. However, that ill placed mole is an eyesore, and you just can't stop staring at it.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    In doug's defense, he didn't want the Reds to pick him. But he tends to support most of the team's decisions, especially regarding #1 picks. He was/is a staunch supporter of Devin Mesoraco, when NOBODY was supporting him. And that is looking like a good call.

    My problem with Stubbs the player is he was never developed properly. He was rushed through the system with no plan for what type of hitter he should be based on his skillset. All anyone saw was the blazing speed and someone said leadoff hitter. He could be a very good middle of the order hitter, a 25 HR guy that happens to have speed and can steal a base. You know like Brandon Phillips thinks he is.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #18
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    In doug's defense, he didn't want the Reds to pick him. But he tends to support most of the team's decisions, especially regarding #1 picks. He was/is a staunch supporter of Devin Mesoraco, when NOBODY was supporting him. And that is looking like a good call.

    My problem with Stubbs the player is he was never developed properly. He was rushed through the system with no plan for what type of hitter he should be based on his skillset. All anyone saw was the blazing speed and someone said leadoff hitter. He could be a very good middle of the order hitter, a 25 HR guy that happens to have speed and can steal a base. You know like Brandon Phillips thinks he is.
    Recently, he's looked better.

    However, can you really judge a number 1 draft pick until he actually gets to the bigs?

    While Meso may end up being a quality ML catcher, there are a ton of catchers that come from the depths of the draft to be average at their position. Logic seems to favor quality pitching in the draft: early and often.

    And, in no way, am I bashing Doug. Stubbs was a scout's dream. Like you said though, his development is nearly non-existent. He's been essentially the same player.... he's just facing better pitching now.

  5. #19
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post
    Recently, he's looked better.

    However, can you really judge a number 1 draft pick until he actually gets to the bigs?

    While Meso may end up being a quality ML catcher, there are a ton of catchers that come from the depths of the draft to be average at their position. Logic seems to favor quality pitching in the draft: early and often.

    And, in no way, am I bashing Doug. Stubbs was a scout's dream. Like you said though, his development is nearly non-existent. He's been essentially the same player.... he's just facing better pitching now.
    My how the RZ aura can change on a player and I mean quickly. Just a month ago after Stubbs hit that grand slam there were folks touting him as a potential All Star.

    I think his true landing point will be somewhere between the two. Until Dickerson got hurt I was for sending Stubbs to AAA to work on things and gain some confidence. For now I'd like to see Heisey get a few starts. We don't have wonderful CF options so as a small market club we're left with the hope that a guy like Stubbs will improve. A club like ours can't go out and buy 8 sure bets when setting up its starting lineup.

    I do agree with Doug when he said that Stubbs is not one of the club's biggest problems

  6. #20
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    My how the RZ aura can change on a player and I mean quickly. Just a month ago after Stubbs hit that grand slam there were folks touting him as a potential All Star.

    I think his true landing point will be somewhere between the two. Until Dickerson got hurt I was for sending Stubbs to AAA to work on things and gain some confidence. For now I'd like to see Heisey get a few starts. We don't have wonderful CF options so as a small market club we're left with the hope that a guy like Stubbs will improve. A club like ours can't go out and buy 8 sure bets when setting up its starting lineup.

    I do agree with Doug when he said that Stubbs is not one of the club's biggest problems
    Their leadoff hitter (getting probably 5 at bats per game) not getting on base is A BIG PROBLEM. It's been a BIG problem for several years now.

    The starting pitching is starting to throw much better. The bullpen has been spotty at times, but overall hasn't been an eyesore. (Minus some bouts with control) Stubbs has been consistently poor with the stick for over a month now.

    I don't want to bench him or send him AAA. I just want him moved down to seventh or preferably 8th in the order.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    My how the RZ aura can change on a player and I mean quickly. Just a month ago after Stubbs hit that grand slam there were folks touting him as a potential All Star.

    I think his true landing point will be somewhere between the two. Until Dickerson got hurt I was for sending Stubbs to AAA to work on things and gain some confidence. For now I'd like to see Heisey get a few starts. We don't have wonderful CF options so as a small market club we're left with the hope that a guy like Stubbs will improve. A club like ours can't go out and buy 8 sure bets when setting up its starting lineup.

    I do agree with Doug when he said that Stubbs is not one of the club's biggest problems
    Some have wavered back and forth, it's the nature of being a fan. Some have held fast too. On both sides.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post
    Their leadoff hitter (getting probably 5 at bats per game) not getting on base is A BIG PROBLEM. It's been a BIG problem for several years now.

    The starting pitching is starting to throw much better. The bullpen has been spotty at times, but overall hasn't been an eyesore. (Minus some bouts with control) Stubbs has been consistently poor with the stick for over a month now.

    I don't want to bench him or send him AAA. I just want him moved down to seventh or preferably 8th in the order.
    Which means Stubbs isn't really the problem. Dusty's lineups are.

  9. #23
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Which means Stubbs isn't really the problem. Dusty's lineups are.
    True, but a hitter with a .267 OBP really doesn't have a place on a Major League starting lineup.

    That being said, I think he gets healthy in the 8th hole. Sees more fastballs, gets one at bat less per game.

  10. #24
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    I think Stubbs is off and guessing at pitches. He is struggling right now and thats about it. He may never be a great hitter but he also isn't a sub .200 hitter.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post
    True, but a hitter with a .267 OBP really doesn't have a place on a Major League starting lineup.

    That being said, I think he gets healthy in the 8th hole. Sees more fastballs, gets one at bat less per game.
    I agree with both statements. The .267 has to improve or he needs to get sent down. Move him down, give him time to improve. It's not like there's any better options at this point.

  12. #26
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    He's listed at 6'4", 205 lbs.

    Not exactly David Eckstein.

    Got me. But to me it's akin to Prince Fielder trying to adapt his game to get more infield hits and bunt singles.

    Body aside....he's the fastest guy from home to first that I've witnessed in a Reds uniform. That does no good when you're striking out or hitting fly balls at an alarming rate.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  13. #27
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    So why were you so high on him?
    Because as poor as he has shown, he isn't this bad. I figured he would probably be a .250/.340/.400 type hitter now and could develop into a .260/.350/.450 hitter in the future with plus defense. If Drew Stubbs could be a .350/.450 guy, and I still think that there is a chance of that, the guy is an elite center fielder. If the guy turns out to be a .700 OPS guy, he is still a quality major leaguer who is overall around league average.

    It isn't that was I 'so high on him', its that I was higher than most others on this board on him.

    Right now Stubbs has a BABIP below .250. For a player with his wheels, there is simply no reason to expect that to continue. Yeah, he strikes out a lot, but he is walking at a good rate as well and I expect the power to show back up soon enough too.

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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Right now Stubbs has a BABIP below .250. For a player with his wheels, there is simply no reason to expect that to continue. Yeah, he strikes out a lot, but he is walking at a good rate as well and I expect the power to show back up soon enough too.
    The power has to show up in the first place. His approach is all wrong at the plate. And he's ill suited to leadoff.

    The Reds have got to stop seeing him as a speedster first. He should be a power guy, even if that doesn't mean HR power, but gap power. Janis in about a quarter of the AB's Stubbs has, has 1 more double. That's ridiculous, and shows that he isn't close to using the natural power he has. His approach needs to be that of a middle of the order hitter. He needs to be more aggressive. The BB's will still come when pitchers see he can hurt them.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #29
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    The power has to show up in the first place. His approach is all wrong at the plate. And he's ill suited to leadoff.

    The Reds have got to stop seeing him as a speedster first. He should be a power guy, even if that doesn't mean HR power, but gap power. Janis in about a quarter of the AB's Stubbs has, has 1 more double. That's ridiculous, and shows that he isn't close to using the natural power he has. His approach needs to be that of a middle of the order hitter. He needs to be more aggressive. The BB's will still come when pitchers see he can hurt them.
    I think the power has showed up in the past. Dude hit 8 HR's last year in 150 at bats. I do agree that he needs to be out of the leadoff spot. I have never wanted him there.

  16. #30
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Drew Stubbs: Why Doesn't He Make Enough Contact?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Because as poor as he has shown, he isn't this bad.

    Right now Stubbs has a BABIP below .250. For a player with his wheels, there is simply no reason to expect that to continue. Yeah, he strikes out a lot, but he is walking at a good rate as well and I expect the power to show back up soon enough too.
    BABIP
    Cairo .143
    Nix .217
    Gomes .226
    Stubbs .230
    Rolen .239
    Cabrera .253
    Phillips .270
    Bruce .275
    Janish .294
    Hernandez .302
    Votto .362
    Hanigan .412

    I donít know, but I get the impression that when there are various players in the .700 ops area that lower BABIP might be a norm for them.

    A lot of bad luck on this team.


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