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Thread: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

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    Louisville Bats Expert batsfan's Avatar
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    Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Ops:
    Votto: .993
    Pujols: .986

    WAR:
    Votto: 1.5
    Pujols: 1.4

    UZR (fielding):
    Votto: 2.6 (second only to Morneau at first)
    Pujols: 1.9

    WOBA:
    Votto: .424
    Pujols: .407
    Last edited by batsfan; 05-10-2010 at 06:48 PM.

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...


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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by batsfan View Post
    Ops:
    Votto: .993
    Pujols: .986

    WAR:
    Votto: 1.5
    Pujols: 1.4

    UZR (fielding):
    Votto: 2.6 (second only to Morneau at first)
    Pujols: 1.9

    WOBA:
    Votto: .424
    Pujols: .407
    Wow. That's impressive. What is Votto's BABIP vs Pujols?
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Sadly, like last year, Votto is the only one (through the whole season's stats) who is producing at a high level (of those players that Baker is smart enough to play on a regular basis).

    Of the Top-40 National League players, only Votto is on the list (6th) in Runs Created. There's hope as Jay Bruce is 41st.

    But, if you looked at Runs Created per 27 Outs, Ryan Hanigan is 11th, Joey Votto 33rd, and Paul Janish 35th. Ramon Hernandez is 69th and Jay Bruce is 71st. For perspective, I'll list the rest....Rolen-124th (remember, I'm only listing the National League players here), Gomes-130th, Phillips-139th, Mike Leake-158th (when you're better or as well as some of the starting position players, you should get mentioned), Cabrera-172nd, Cueto-175th, Owings-188th, Bailey-194th, Stubbs-206th. Yes, Drew Stubbs is worse than 4 of our Pitchers in Creating Runs. This is now the 3rd, or is it 4th year in a row, where our leadoff hitter has been worthless.

    Why not bat Hanigan and his .380 OBP 1st and get it over with? Start Hanigan 5 out of 7 games. Speed is over-rated at the top if you can't get on base. Hanigan would still maintain at least a .370 OBP from the #1 hole. The guy has done it for the last 8 years.


    Oh....and Dickerson is 236th. He really shouldn't have been playing with that injury. What a waste of time. That should have been fixed in Spring Training.

    Nix is 250th. Cairo is 279th. Get rid of Cairo, please, Walt!

    Harang is 388th. Francisco is 390th. Willy Taveras is 391st....gee, what a surprise. Dusty would still play him if he was here. Arroyo is 421st. Heisey is 442nd.

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Hanigan and Janish are SSS recipients.

    NO WAY they keep up those kind of Runs Created numbers if they played FT.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post

    NO WAY Hanigan and Janish keep up those kind of Runs Created numbers if they played FT.
    Ya think?

    What Hanigan would put up are the numbers he's put up over the last 8 years....a .370 OBP...which is worthy of starting 5 out of every 7 games. He'll also add enough power and clutch hitting to be a very significant Offensive contributor to the team. His Runs Created/27 outs, if given a full-time position, would still put him in the Top-5 on the team (as long as he's not hitting in the #8 position every game).

    Janish would be a complete question mark, as nobody knows. As a rising talent, it's still anybody's guess as to what he'd produce if given full-time duties. He couldn't do worse than Cabrera though. That would be very difficult, when you add in that his better Defense would mean that his OPS would have to be 100+ points worse than Cabrera's to say that he's "worse". That would mean Janish having an OPS of .573 or less. While it's possible, it's very unlikely. And, even then, he'd be just as good as Cabrera. He'd have to have on OPS of around .540 or less for the "experiment" to have failed. No way does that happen. And, if it does, no big deal. It's not like anything was given up or lost by sitting down the 2010 version of 35-year old Orlando Cabrera.

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    You gotta remember that the name Pujols alone forces teams to pitch to him carefully and often around him. He doesn't get much to hit.........of course unless you're the Reds...........then we walk the bases ahead of him and force ourselves to pitch to him.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    You gotta remember that the name Pujols alone forces teams to pitch to him carefully and often around him. He doesn't get much to hit.........of course unless you're the Reds...........then we walk the bases ahead of him and force ourselves to pitch to him.
    Getting pitched around gets factored into both OPS and WAR. Also, having Matt Holliday behind you gets you better pitches no matter who you are... more than Scott Rolen does at least.

    Joey's production has been unreal for a few consecutive years now, whether he is better than Pujols or not.

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Sadly, like last year, Votto is the only one (through the whole season's stats) who is producing at a high level (of those players that Baker is smart enough to play on a regular basis).

    Of the Top-40 National League players, only Votto is on the list (6th) in Runs Created. There's hope as Jay Bruce is 41st.

    But, if you looked at Runs Created per 27 Outs, Ryan Hanigan is 11th, Joey Votto 33rd, and Paul Janish 35th. Ramon Hernandez is 69th and Jay Bruce is 71st. For perspective, I'll list the rest....Rolen-124th (remember, I'm only listing the National League players here), Gomes-130th, Phillips-139th, Mike Leake-158th (when you're better or as well as some of the starting position players, you should get mentioned), Cabrera-172nd, Cueto-175th, Owings-188th, Bailey-194th, Stubbs-206th. Yes, Drew Stubbs is worse than 4 of our Pitchers in Creating Runs. This is now the 3rd, or is it 4th year in a row, where our leadoff hitter has been worthless.

    Why not bat Hanigan and his .380 OBP 1st and get it over with? Start Hanigan 5 out of 7 games. Speed is over-rated at the top if you can't get on base. Hanigan would still maintain at least a .370 OBP from the #1 hole. The guy has done it for the last 8 years.


    Oh....and Dickerson is 236th. He really shouldn't have been playing with that injury. What a waste of time. That should have been fixed in Spring Training.

    Nix is 250th. Cairo is 279th. Get rid of Cairo, please, Walt!

    Harang is 388th. Francisco is 390th. Willy Taveras is 391st....gee, what a surprise. Dusty would still play him if he was here. Arroyo is 421st. Heisey is 442nd.
    Can we go one thread without hearing about your profound love for Hanigan and Janish? Everyone on this board now knows you hate Dusty because he won't play Hanigan and Janish more, most everyone agrees anyway. We don't need a recap of that in every thread. This thread is about Votto outperforming Pujols thus far.

    You typically have very insightful posts that I enjoy reading, but lately they all seem to be about the same thing.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 05-11-2010 at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Ya think?
    Yes, I do.

    All your other ramblings are pure speculation.

    EVERYONE falls in love with the Part-Time Player, the Back-Up QB, etc...

    Haven't we seen enough of this with the Reds? Freel, Hairston, etc?

    Come on dude, wake up!

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Can we go one thread without hearing about your profound love for Hanigan and Janish? Everyone on this board now knows you hate Dusty because he won't play Hanigan and Janish more, most everyone agrees anyway. We don't need a recap of that in every thread. This thread is about Votto outperforming Pujols thus far.

    You typically have very insightful posts that I enjoy reading, but lately they all seem to be about the same thing.
    This!

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    Getting pitched around gets factored into both OPS and WAR. Also, having Matt Holliday behind you gets you better pitches no matter who you are... more than Scott Rolen does at least.

    Joey's production has been unreal for a few consecutive years now, whether he is better than Pujols or not.
    Like you have to tell me?

    Looked at my username lately?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Can we go one thread without hearing about your profound love for Hanigan and Janish? Everyone on this board now knows you hate Dusty because he won't play Hanigan and Janish more, most everyone agrees anyway. We don't need a recap of that in every thread. This thread is about Votto outperforming Pujols thus far.

    You typically have very insightful posts that I enjoy reading, but lately they all seem to be about the same thing.
    That post you quoted by me was about Votto. But, when a player his hitting lights out like Hanigan, his name and numbers are going to pop into almost any discussion. So, he got about 15% of that post. That's not very much.

    Also, Cabrera has looked terrible defensively lately so it naturally brings up Janish, who is getting the same amount of playing time as Cairo, which makes no sense. This is also a timing thing, so Janish will get more attention right now.

    Also, I've posted a lot lately, so that magnifies it. Less posting, less magnification. But, the majority of my posts have mostly been about the great starting pitching we've gotten and the positive streaks we're on.

    BLEEDS just doesn't like it because he hates Janish (if you look at his history of posts about Janish) and thinks he shouldn't see the light of day on a ballfield. He thinks he's too old to possibly show any kind of improvement Offensively.

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    Wow. That's impressive. What is Votto's BABIP vs Pujols?

    .354 for Votto

    .333 for Pujols
    2009 Redszone MLB Mock Draft

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    Re: Don't look now, but Votto is having a better season than...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Also, I've posted a lot...

    "Just about everyone" doesn't like it because they see Janish for who he is... and they think he should be a spot starter and a defensive replacement. They thinks he's too old to possibly show any kind of improvement Offensively.
    Fixed it for ya...

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    Last edited by BLEEDS; 05-11-2010 at 08:47 PM.
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009


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