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Thread: Cliff Lee

  1. #586
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    Unless Seattle is asking for the moon, and Yonder or Fransisco don't seem like the moon to me, its time to get this done and shoot for the postseason. If the Reds make the postseason, I'd rather have Lee starting game 1 than Arroyo, Volquez, cueto, Leake, Wood, Baily, Chapman or Harang. which in turns makes the game 2 starter that much stronger, same w/ the game 3 starter, then its back to Lee at the top. If he can give a team what he gave the Phillies last year this postseason, that team will be tough to beat.
    I think Walt has to make a deal to bolster the front end of the Reds rotation. It has been 15 years since the Reds last playoff, 11 years since the Reds last sniffed the playoffs. Walt is good enough at his job to make a trade and bring in a top notch pitcher without gutting the entire farms system.

    Even if Walt needs to give up a lot of the Reds system I still think that the core of the Reds team is youthful. Guys who figure to be in the long term future are Votto, Phillips, Stubbs, Bruce, Leake, Cueto, Bailey, and Chapman all have youth on their side. You can build a team around Votto in the 3 hole similar to what StL has down with Pujols. A trade for Lee may hurt the Reds on the farm in the very near future, but Walt will also be able to replenish that with at least 2 early picks in next years MLB draft.

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  3. #587
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    If the Reds can package Yonder and Cisco for Lee I would be for it as I feel bats are easier to replace in the minors. I would not give up Wood though as I hate to deal away young pitching, and Wood looks like a keeper to me. With Arroyo and Harang gone next season Wood looks to be a solid #3 or #4 for the Reds.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  4. #588
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Man the closer we get to the deadline and the longer we hear no real updates, the more disapointed I'll be if we don't land him.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  5. #589
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Note the Brewers are now a very much weaker team than when they made the trade for CC--and much weaker than the Reds. And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.

  6. #590
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    As a matter of methodology, it seems to me decisions made in a frenzy over supposed scarcities almost always turn out to be bad ones. Cf. stock-market trading. You always want to be on the side of the trade that most people are not on.

  7. #591
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Note the Brewers are now a very much weaker team than when they made the trade for CC--and much weaker than the Reds. And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.
    Ah yes the Brewers traded away all that pitching, for CC.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  8. #592
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Note the Brewers are now a very much weaker team than when they made the trade for CC--and much weaker than the Reds. And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.
    How did that trade make them a weaker MLB team today? No one they traded has had any positive MLB impact yet.

    They're weak because they have no pitching. Not because of that trade.

  9. #593
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Note the Brewers are now a very much weaker team than when they made the trade for CC--and much weaker than the Reds. And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.
    When you can find us a player that guarantees us a playoff appearance, let us know.

    If that's the standard, then let's just stop wasting our time and Walt's cell minutes with those pesky trade talks.

  10. #594
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Note the Brewers are now a very much weaker team than when they made the trade for CC--and much weaker than the Reds. And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.
    Their drop off really has nothing to do with what they gave up, though. They were in a similar spot to the Reds are now. LaPorta was blocked by Fielder. Brantley is an OFer and two of those three spots are blocked by Braun and Hart. Would he be that much of an upgrade in 2010 over what the Brewers put in CF now? No, he'd be a promising rookie and do what promising rookies do...have big ups and big downs.

    The Brewers won the WC in 2008 because Sabathia did enough to the staff to make it just good enough. When he left, they had Gallardo and spare parts. If the Reds get Lee, they won't be too hurt when he goes because they still have Cueto, Leake, hopefully a rejuvenated Volquez, Chapman, and maybe even Arroyo. Much better post-rental staff than the Brewers even if they give up Wood.

    To put it more simply, Sabathia was the Brewers chance. Lee would simply make the Reds better. And not only that, he would allow them to take it easier on Leake and Volquez this year, so they should be even more ready to go next season.
    Last edited by guttle11; 07-07-2010 at 05:18 PM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  11. #595
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.
    You know, statistically it's possible if you leave the house you could get run over by a bus and die. Ergo, it makes no sense to ever leave the house.

  12. #596
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Note the Brewers are now a very much weaker team than when they made the trade for CC--and much weaker than the Reds. And note, too, that Cliff Lee does not guarantee even a playoff appearance--something seemingly assumed by a number of posters here.
    Okay, give Milwaukee back the four players they traded for Sabathia. Exactly how is it that missing those four guys is making the Brewers a "very much weaker" team today?

    Matt LaPorta would still be blocked by Fielder, Hart and Braun. He's not exactly doing much for Cleveland.

    Rob Bryson is a 22-year-old reliever who just reached High A this year.

    Zach Jackson is a failed starter who's relieving in the PCL.

    Michael Brantley is a skilled outfielder who could possibly be a starter in center field for the Brewers.

    Tell me how having those four guys back with the Brewers makes them a strong enough club right now that it was worth NOT making a run to the playoffs in 2008.

  13. #597
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The writer, Jason Churchill is also a writer for ESPN.com.
    Loosely.

    I still stand by what I said. He's run a site for less than four years -- I truly doubt the self-serving claims I saw just in a few minutes browsing that site.

    ESPN's web development team has been assembling niche writers. He was brought on because of his attention to scouting. That's stated in his own bio. I'm sure he's earned his job at ESPN for doing just that. But I also know from personal experience that guys don't get to that point by telling what teams have told them in private conversations -- as if that matters. We all know that no one with a grounded view of the market would bother asking for, let alone have an expectation of receiving, Jay Bruce or Joey Votto for a 2 1/2 month rental.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  14. #598
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
    Okay, give Milwaukee back the four players they traded for Sabathia. Exactly how is it that missing those four guys is making the Brewers a "very much weaker" team today?

    Matt LaPorta would still be blocked by Fielder, Hart and Braun. He's not exactly doing much for Cleveland.

    Rob Bryson is a 22-year-old reliever who just reached High A this year.

    Zach Jackson is a failed starter who's relieving in the PCL.

    Michael Brantley is a skilled outfielder who could possibly be a starter in center field for the Brewers.

    Tell me how having those four guys back with the Brewers makes them a strong enough club right now that it was worth NOT making a run to the playoffs in 2008.
    My guess is the Brewers have no regrets over that deal, and would do the same again if offered the chance. I have my doubts that the same deal could net you Cliff Lee right now. LaPorta was suppose to be the next big thing, just stuck behind 2 perenial all stars. So far he's been less than the next big thing, sounds similar to Yonder.

  15. #599
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    My guess is the Brewers have no regrets over that deal, and would do the same again if offered the chance. I have my doubts that the same deal could net you Cliff Lee right now. LaPorta was suppose to be the next big thing, just stuck behind 2 perenial all stars. So far he's been less than the next big thing, sounds similar to Yonder.
    That's easy to say now but what is LaPorta was looking like Joey Votto or Jeff Bagwell?

  16. #600
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    That's easy to say now but what is LaPorta was looking like Joey Votto or Jeff Bagwell?
    And what if Cliff Lee's arm falls off on his first pitch as a Red? It's still the best move to make...who knows how it will fall out.


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