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Thread: The Bullpen

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    The Bullpen

    The Reds are back in first place but we aren't exactly the '27 Yankees or the Big Red Machine. We have some holes & there have been a lot of conversations regarding how to fix them. One topic that hasn't gotten a lot of discussion is the pen. it seems to me that adding another late inning reliever would really help the team. really. a lot. plus it wouldn't be super expensive like a few other trade targets are.

    heres what i would do:
    #1 let Rhodes save a few games. Coco is struggling a lot.
    #2 get Owings more innings. Masset, Lincoln & DRH have all had issues. lets give Micah a shot more than once every 2 weeks
    #3 send Fisher back to AAA & call up Maloney, Lecure or del Rosario
    #4 start working the phones to see if we can add a solid reliever via trade. not just another generic middle reliever but a real set up guy.
    .

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  3. #2
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Brian Bruney's now available, I'd take a flier on him.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  4. #3
    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Brian Bruney's now available, I'd take a flier on him.
    He has problems throwing strikes.

  5. #4
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    There is virtually nobody available on the relief market right now. Any improvements this team is going to make in that regard is going to have to come from in-house.

  6. #5
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    What happened to Weathers?

    Only marginally kidding with that comment of course, but its evident we need to consider changes. Change is not Dusty's forte so I'm not sure he can handle changing the roles in the 'pen. I'd give a shot to Masset and Rhodes.

    I'd also consider Harang in the role in an outside the box sort of way.

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  7. #6
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    You have to pitch Owings more. He's show the ability to get people out this season, so you use him until that stops. If you have to call up another long guy so Dusty feels safe, then do that.

    I call up David Weathers and see if he's kept himself in shape. He's a guy who was good for us all the way through last season, and Dusty will trust him.

    I'd also send down Fisher and call up del Rosario.

    You could call Chapman up and use him out of the pen, but I think it's a little premature for that at this point.

    If our bullpen causes us to be bad for ANOTHER season, I'm gonna be salty as hell.
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  8. #7
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Cordero is gonna give me a stroke of a heart attack or somthin' bad.

  9. #8
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Sam LeCure pitched a one-hit shutout tonight vs. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  10. #9
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    You have to pitch Owings more. He's show the ability to get people out this season, so you use him until that stops. If you have to call up another long guy so Dusty feels safe, then do that.

    I call up David Weathers and see if he's kept himself in shape. He's a guy who was good for us all the way through last season, and Dusty will trust him.

    I'd also send down Fisher and call up del Rosario.

    You could call Chapman up and use him out of the pen, but I think it's a little premature for that at this point.

    If our bullpen causes us to be bad for ANOTHER season, I'm gonna be salty as hell.
    I like the idea of seeing what Stormy is upto. Hook or by crook he was a stabilizer.

    I do NOT like the idea of Chapman for the pen. He has way too much potential to be put into the pen upon call up (unless we have no other options). I dont want to see him used like Papelbon. Let him build up his innings as a starter in AAA. If theres an injury to the rotation or you want to see if "Smoltzing" Harang helps then by all means give Chapman a call. Until that time get him as many inning with Castillo in AAA. I also want to see him throwing more consistant strikes so if he gets up here isnt walking a bunch of guys due to getting "squeezed" or just being that wild.
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  11. #10
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Pass on Weathers. That boat has sailed I'm afraid. How old is he now?

    Pass on Chapman too. He is not throwing strikes enough for me to want him in the pen. He also seems to take a while to get heated up. That's a bad combination for me out of the bullpen IMO.

    I'd be looking to deal. Start with the teams near the bottom.

    Will Ohman with the Orioles
    JJ Putz, Santos, Thorton from the White Sox
    Lindstrom, Sampson from the Astros
    Meek from the Pirates

    Lots of them aren't exactly household names, but low ERA's, low WHIP's, regular work with solid results.

    We've got pieces where we could deal from an excess IMO. Now's a good time to start looking (if Walt hasn't started already)
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 05-22-2010 at 11:07 PM.
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  12. #11
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Chapman would be fine up here in June. Limit his innings and his control will be better against advanced hitters.

    Chapman and Maloney should be up here soon.

    You aren't going to get anything in the trade market right now. Absolute abysmal relief pitching around the league. The market is THIN.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  13. #12
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Chapman is not an option for the pen. He has complained about not being able to get loose on several occasions. When he doesn't get loose he gets wild and gets hit often. Del Rosario would be my first pick to come up followed by Burton. Wood also could get some consideration as well.

    Rhodes is a great set up guy but has had a lot of trouble closing in his career.

    Thinking out loud here, spitballing a little. How many innings do we let Leake throw this season and would one move him to the pen when he gets close to that magic number. If his magic number is 175 for innings would you consider moving him to the pen for the final 20-25 innings. Just thought I would throw it out there as the Nats will limit Strasburg to 100 IP's when called up this season.
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  14. #13
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Dusty is taking a meat grinder to both Cordero and Masset. I'm not going to sit here and blame Dusty for their struggles, but he certainly isn't doing a whole lot to help them out. There really wasn't any reason for Cordero to pitch the 9th inning today, yet Baker sends him in there - again - and then we get to watch Cordero throw 36 pitches as he tries to blow a four run lead.

    So here's an obvious question: if the Reds have a small lead late in the game tomorrow, does Dusty pitch Cordero again?

    With the team's strength supposedly built on pitching, not offense, that means the Reds are likely going to be in a large share of close, lower scoring games. They need a deeper bullpen to go out and take care of games like tonight's game, plus to step in and take care of closer games just so guys like Cordero, Rhodes and Masset can get a night off.

    If Mike Lincoln can't be trusted to get three outs while protecting a four run lead, then the guy needs to be DFA'd. At the same time, he also shouldn't be pitching three inning appearances.

    If Carlos Fisher can't be trusted to pitch in any game except a blow out loss, then he should be down in Louisville.

    Daniel Ray Herrera is a LOOGY as of now. He'll destroy left handed hitters, but he's going to get hit against right-handers. There's nothing wrong with him just being a LOOGY; he just needs to be properly managed as one.

    Micah Owings frankly needs to get a shot at some higher leverage innings, and he also needs to be trusted to give the Reds some two inning appearances. The problem is he's the long guy, and that's probably why Dusty is holding him back, i.e. the fear of the long, extra inning game. But we know Owings can hit, and we know he's a long guy, so Dusty really needs to work him in some closer games where Owings can go two innings. If his spot comes up at the plate, no big deal, he can hit for himself capably. More often than not, having a reliever able to go two innings in any given appearance usually saves the use of one, if not two, additional relievers.

    The 1999 Reds had a beautifully managed bullpen. In short, they primarily had two guys trusted to close (Graves and Williamson), a third guy who could pitch two to three innings in an appearance if necessary (Sullivan), a LOOGY (Reyes) a standard middle reliever who was capable of pitching in a close game if necessary (White) and then your blow out mopup guy (Belinda). The key, though, is that guys weren't as locked in to specific roles as Dusty seems to do this year. If Graves needed a night off, Williamson was able to close (and vice versa). If the bullpen was tired overall, a guy like Sullivan could go out and get 6-9 outs, eating up innings and allowing McKeon to rest some others.

    But this year, every time I turn around Rhodes, Masset and Cordero are warming up in the pen and coming in to pitch no more than one inning (or in Rhodes' case, sometimes no more than one hitter).

    It's no wonder those guys are pitching tired all the time.
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  15. #14
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Daniel Ray Herrera is a LOOGY as of now. He'll destroy left handed hitters, but he's going to get hit against right-handers. There's nothing wrong with him just being a LOOGY; he just needs to be properly managed as one.
    Left handed hitters are hitting over .400 against DRH.

    vsLHH:
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    Last edited by reds44; 05-22-2010 at 11:40 PM.
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  16. #15
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Left handed hitters are hitting over .400 against DRH.
    If you're basing an analysis on a whopping 18 plate appearances, you're going to get a whole bunch of poor analysis.

    Even his career numbers are a small sample size, but I'll take those over 18 plate appearances. And for his career, DRH has a .549 OPS against lefties whereas he has a .955 OPS against righties.
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    Put an end to the Lost Decade.


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