Homer Bailey to the 15 DL (Right Shoulder), RHP Enerio Del Rosario Recalled

[Reds1]

Yes, he threw a complete game 1 hit shut out I believe on Sat.

[membengal]

Even if he says he's fine and the tests seem to agree, given his age and workload last year, I hope the Reds exercise abundant caution and DL him. Give him 15 days of rest and then a start or two in AAA, basically giving him three weeks or so of rest. Let Wood carry the water in the meantime, and get Homer back rested and ready to go by the end of June.

[LincolnparkRed]

Even if he says he's fine and the tests seem to agree, given his age and workload last year, I hope the Reds exercise abundant caution and DL him. Give him 15 days of rest and then a start or two in AAA, basically giving him three weeks or so of rest. Let Wood carry the water in the meantime, and get Homer back rested and ready to go by the end of June.

I see no harm in doing that. Protect your investment. Maloney, LeCure, or Wood are eventually going to have to replace Harang, unless you like seeing a 10 game loser on the staff at the break. Just gives one of them an early audition

Just hoping that Cueto's blister clears up

[Cedric]

If this injury is serious or lingers there will be countless yaps about overwork and Dusty being at fault.

I honestly haven't researched enough to have an opinion on his innings increase. Just stating that right or wrong Dusty will be blamed.

[Always Red]

If this injury is serious or lingers there will be countless yaps about overwork and Dusty being at fault.

I honestly haven't researched enough to have an opinion on his innings increase. Just stating that right or wrong Dusty will be blamed.

Daugherty gets kicked around a lot here, but I like what he had to say this morning in response to an email that he received blaming Dusty for Homer's arm problem:

If you are a starting pitcher and you are 23 years old and you can’t throw 112 pitches in a game, maybe you should think about a shirt and tie. This is no slam on Bailey. It’s a slam on the ongoing and ever-expanding micro-gazing at baseball statistics. In his last 4 starts of ‘09, Bailey allowed 3 ER in 26 innings. He threw a combined 203 innings last year, in ‘Ville and Cincinnati. Yes, that was 55 more innings than in ‘08. But if the guy was going to have arm trouble, wouldnt it have showed itself last September, when the tyrant Dusty Baker pushed him to a sadistic 112 pitches a start? Just guessing, but I’d bet for a couple months after last season, Bailey went hunting. He didnt throw anything harder than a trout line.

If you’re going to be a successful starter in the big leagues, you’re going to throw 100-plus pitches a lot of the time.

The point is, pitchers get injured and there really is nothing you can do to keep it from happening. Throwing a baseball overhanded 95mph is an unnatural, violent motion.

Just my opinion, but I think Baker and the Reds have handled Bailey's workload just fine. If he is injured, it's not proof that they handled him incorrectly.

[redsmetz]

Even if he says he's fine and the tests seem to agree, given his age and workload last year, I hope the Reds exercise abundant caution and DL him. Give him 15 days of rest and then a start or two in AAA, basically giving him three weeks or so of rest. Let Wood carry the water in the meantime, and get Homer back rested and ready to go by the end of June.

Not to be argumentative, but do AAA innings not count for work? We say this around here all of the time, but he's going to throw the ball whether it's here or in Louisville. I'm not adverse to DL'ing if it's called for to give him a breather, but really, once he's off the DL, it doesn't matter whether it's AAA or the majors. A pitch is a pitch is a pitch, as Gertrude Stein once said.

[top6]

In that article, P-doc admits that he has no idea what the stats have to say about Bailey’s injury, but opines that it is stupid to use stats to determine if a pitcher has been overworked. He asks the question “[d]oes last year have anything to do with this year?” and can't answer it – but then speculates that Bailey’s pitch counts last year have nothing to do with his arm health this year. He states he is “just guessing” about Homer’s offseason throwing, but nevertheless bases his argument on the fact (which he doesn't know) that Homer did not throw after the season last year.

In other words, he admits he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about, but then shares his opinion anyway. Why is this man paid to write about baseball again?

[dougdirt]

In other words, he admits he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about, but then shares his opinion anyway. Why is this man paid to write about baseball again?

For the same reason lots of guys are.... newspapers suck. They hire writers because they are good writers, not because they know a subject they will be covering.

[nate]

For the same reason lots of guys are.... newspapers suck. They hire writers because they are good writers, not because they know a subject they will be covering.

OK, so explain John Fay.

[Homer Bailey]

OK, so explain John Fay.

He shoots he scoooooooooooores!

[edabbs44]

Why are we supposed to be worried about pitches on the micro and then innings on the macro? Would it be "allowed" to jump from 150 to 200 innings if those innings were treated with care?

PS: I am not a buyer of these metrics outside of the obvious (a lot of overwork is no good). I'm not sure why everything must be quantified, but I guess that's life.

[membengal]

Not to be argumentative, but do AAA innings not count for work? We say this around here all of the time, but he's going to throw the ball whether it's here or in Louisville. I'm not adverse to DL'ing if it's called for to give him a breather, but really, once he's off the DL, it doesn't matter whether it's AAA or the majors. A pitch is a pitch is a pitch, as Gertrude Stein once said.

Well, the first 15 days would be NO work in any games, I would hope, as he would be on the DL and getting rest. A rehab start or two, in my mind's eye, at AAA at the end of a rest period, is hopefully less intense than major league innings. And I am not saying take him off the DL and leave him at AAA, I am saying a few weeks rest, and a rehab start or two.

That all presupposes there really is nothing more wrong with his shoulder than "tightness".

Also, to pre-answer this, IF there is something wrong with Homer's arm that requires surgery, I do not blame Dusty or Dusty's usage of him in the last three years for the surgery. He pitched a bit more at the end of last year than some would have liked, but I was okay with it as some success for Homer was an important goal.

Let's hope he's fine. I hope they exercise caution even if he appears fine, that's all I am trying to say. The Reds have pitchers who can fill in for a few weeks...

[dougdirt]

Why are we supposed to be worried about pitches on the micro and then innings on the macro? Would it be "allowed" to jump from 150 to 200 innings if those innings were treated with care?

PS: I am not a buyer of these metrics outside of the obvious (a lot of overwork is no good). I'm not sure why everything must be quantified, but I guess that's life.

If a guy throws 150 innings throwing 19 pitches an inning to 200 innings throwing 15 pitches an inning, yeah, that is probably going to be ok. That simply doesn't happen all that often though.

[lollipopcurve]

If Baker had truly overworked Homer last summer, I think we would have seen signs of trouble before this.

[Always Red]

In that article, P-doc admits that he has no idea what the stats have to say about Bailey’s injury, but opines that it is stupid to use stats to determine if a pitcher has been overworked. He asks the question “[d]oes last year have anything to do with this year?” and can't answer it – but then speculates that Bailey’s pitch counts last year have nothing to do with his arm health this year. He states he is “just guessing” about Homer’s offseason throwing, but nevertheless bases his argument on the fact (which he doesn't know) that Homer did not throw after the season last year.

In other words, he admits he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about, but then shares his opinion anyway. Why is this man paid to write about baseball again?

I didn't quite get that out of what he said.

Anytime someone (in this case, Doc) writes:

Sometimes, the stats-obsessed 2nd-guessing is useful. Others, it’s just a little strange.

...it's not going to go over well here, I realize that.

I have no special allegiance to Doc; sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes I think he's even more of a cranky old man than I am.

He totally whiffed on the 2nd part of his screed though, when he mentioned he thought Dusty was mishandling the bullpen.

Our very own Red Reporter comes to a much different conclusion (yes, based on stats ):

http://www.redreporter.com/2010/5/23...he-bullpen-sub

But overall, my impression of his tendency to leverage his relievers in appropriate spots is fairly positive, despite Dusty's general adherence to the "closer only pitches the 9th in save situations" dogma.