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Thread: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - USA Eliminated

  1. #91
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    For that imaginary Englishman, today's draw feels like a loss, I guarantee you.

    England SHOULD have higher expectations for their team than America. Every single one of their starters is an all-star caliber player in the EPL. (Well, besides their GK, perhaps. )

    A draw in group play where you win a point versus the best team in the group is NOT a moral victory.
    Kentucky often has a roster full of NBA players but as a Tennessee fan I get no satisfaction if the game went into OT. I'd be thinking about what all we could have done to win the game.

    Personally I'd feel like a putz if I found myself excited about a tie but that's just me. To each his own...

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  3. #92
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Kentucky often has a roster full of NBA players but as a Tennessee fan I get no satisfaction if the game went into OT. I'd be thinking about what all we could have done to win the game.

    Personally I'd feel like a putz if I found myself excited about a tie but that's just me. To each his own...
    That's not a corollary. There are no ties in basketball. There's also no group play where the ultimate goal is to qualify as either the first or second best team in the group to move onto the knockout stages.

    There are no ties in the knockout stages. Perhaps you'd be better off waiting until then to watch the games?
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  4. #93
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    You are welcome to your perspective but it is an ignorant one. Many sports have ties - hockey, football, boxing, car racing, track and field, etc. Many Americans participate in those sports and are very used to ties. I guess you never noticed ties occurring so you formed an opinion out of that blindness. Just don't say you are speaking for "americans" because you don't speak for all the americans that encourage each other after ties in the sport they participate in.
    Yes I am welcome to my perspective and your opinion of it as ignorant is just that: your opinion.

    I have never liked ties in those other sports either. I very much wanted the NFL and NCAA to end ties.

    I do not speak for all Americans and neither do you. We can speak as Americans.

    I was answering the post that lumped Americans as a group having an aversion to ties. I merely continued the generality in my response. My apologies if that approach offended you.

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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    There are no ties in the knockout stages. Perhaps you'd be better off waiting until then to watch the games?
    I don't understand why they change the rules as this competition goes on but that's another issue.

    Everytime this Cup comes around the question is asked "why Americans don't get into it". Well 1-1 ties is the reason.

    If we'd have won 5-0 a lot of Americans would wake up and watch the next game.

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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Everytime this Cup comes around the question is asked "why Americans don't get into it". Well 1-1 ties is the reason.
    No it's not. The reason is because we aren't the best in the world, or at least near the best in the world. The USMNT didn't even qualify for the WC for 40 years, and there was no domestic league for decades. The MLS is the first viable, long term domestic league we've ever had. Tough to go from no WC interest to widespread WC passion in two decades, when 4 years of build up leads to "Well, we might be pretty good this time".

    Soccer is growing in America, and our USMNT program is better than ever and continues to show improvement. If the MLS can continue to grow and get more name players (even well beyond their prime), soccer can become mainstream. It'll never be #1, but it can and probably will at some point become a solid #4 ahead of hockey.
    Last edited by guttle11; 06-12-2010 at 08:17 PM.
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Landon is the greatest player in USA history and he played great tonight.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Player ratings for the match from Goal.com

    ENGLAND

    Robert Green - 4 - Had little to deal with before somehow contriving to fumble Dempsey's shot over his own goal line on 40 minutes. The debate over England's No.1 intensified at that very moment. Needed the post to help him out when Altidore broke free in the second half.

    Glen Johnson - 6 - Eager in attack, he almost produced an immediate response to Dempsey's equaliser with a neat run.

    John Terry - 6 - Unable to make his presence felt in the opposition area at set-pieces due to some 'hands-on' tactics from the USA defenders. Secure and unhurried in defence.

    Ledley King - 5.5 - Had performed well enough in the first half before being replaced by Jamie Carragher at half-time, presumably through injury.

    Ashley Cole - 6 - A generally quiet night as he focused on nullifying Donovan, which he did to decent effect.

    Aaron Lennon - 6 - Should have taken more responsibility and tested Howard when clean through on goal on 20 minutes instead of squaring across the face of goal, although did well to set up Heskey in the second half. Still not truly match fit after a lengthy lay-off, which begs the question why Capello didn't give him more of a run-out in the warm-up games.

    Frank Lampard - 5.5 - Had a free-kick opportunity from fully 25 yards midway through the second half but blazed the Jabulani high and wide. Misplaced one pass straight out for a throw in to much jeering - a forgettable evening.

    Steven Gerrard - 6 - Took just four minutes to show he wouldn't shrink from the responsibility of carrying the armband. Was a real marauder in the first quarter of the game, but his influence waned as America gained a foothold in the game.

    James Milner - 4 - Perhaps fortunate to escape a yellow card for a clumsy challenge on Cherundolo early on before finally picking one up on 26 minutes. Substituted soon after, and fair to assume the stomach bug that threatened his inclusion was a major part in an abject showing.

    Emile Heskey - 7 - Perfectly weighted pass set Gerrard through on goal for the early opener. Blew his chance to end the naysaying once and for all, though, when shooting straight at Howard with all the time in the world in the second half.

    Wayne Rooney - 6 - Still nowhere near the mid-season form that set the Premier League alight. A headed chance on 70 minutes would have been buried in January, but not this time. Almost stunned Howard with a long-range snapshot.

    Substitutes

    Shaun Wright-Phillips - 6 - On after half an hour for the wilting Milner. A much livelier presence who immediately set about forcing Cherundolo on to the back foot.

    Jamie Carragher - 5.5 - On for King at half-time. Lucky to escape any punishment at all for a body check on Findley as the American sprinted goalwards.

    Peter Crouch - 5 - On for Heskey on 80 minutes. Quickly had a headed chance that he failed to direct on target.

    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    Tim Howard - 7.5 - Little chance when Gerrard was sent clean through on him early on. Took a hefty boot from Heskey but refused to buckle, and stared down the Aston Villa man when he was in on goal in the second half. Can return to the Everton dressing room next season with pride intact.

    Steven Cherundolo - 6 - Had a handful of decent crossing opportunities in the opening quarter but couldn't produce the kind of delivery needed. Had the beating of an unfit Milner, but was booked for a foul on his replacement Wright-Phillips.

    Oguchi Onyewu - 8 - Along with central defensive partner DeMerit, he refused to be intimidated by reputations and dealt with everything solidly. Perfect example of his night was how he tracked back to deny Lampard a clear shot on goal with the clock ticking down. Nobody contributed more to the USA cause.

    Jay DeMerit - 7 - Got too close to Heskey for the opener which made the striker's lay off all too easy. Booked near the beginning of the second half but put in a sterling shift.

    Carlos Bocanegra - 6 - Could have scored had he managed to direct Donovan's fierce free-kick on target in the second half. Only struggled defensively when Johnson overlapped to good effect.

    Landon Donovan - 6.5 - Fabulous measured cross picked out Altidore six yards from goal on 18 minutes, but the striker headed wide. Some good set-piece deliveries, but Cole did a fine job of keeping America's true star quiet in open play.

    Clint Dempsey - 7 - Had already shown his willingness to shoot from distance even before somehow beating Green with a tepid effort.

    Michael Bradley - 6 - Held his own against the more heralded Gerrard and Lampard. Some incisive passing and always looked comfortable on the ball.

    Ricardo Clark - 6 - Played his part in America's determined midfield effort without ever taking a starring role.

    Jozy Altidore - 6 - Probably should have done better from Donovan's cross than head harmlessly low and wide. An even greater opportunity came in the second half but he was denied by a combination of Green and the upright.

    Robbie Findley - 6 - Must have thought he was in on goal before being barged over by Carragher with 18 minutes to play. Booked soon after for a lunge on Gerrard.

    Substitutes

    Edson Buddle - N/A - Replace Findley on 77 minutes.

    Stuart Holden - N/A - Short run-out in place of Altidore

  9. #98
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Say what you will about the "Ties prevent Americans from enjoying the game," but soccer is growing in popularity with each passing year. I'm just a casual fan myself, but I can never remember this much chatter about soccer happening -- even in previous world cup years. People at work were actually planning where they were going to watch this match.

    Great game, great outcome. On to the next one for the Yanks!
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  10. #99
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Say what you will about the "Ties prevent Americans from enjoying the game," but soccer is growing in popularity with each passing year. I'm just a casual fan myself, but I can never remember this much chatter about soccer happening -- even in previous world cup years. People at work were actually planning where they were going to watch this match.
    Getting England in the group and as the opening match really helped build anticipation, IMO. Not unlike a college football team that's opening with a premier opponent instead of a typical punching bag; you just... can't... wait.
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  11. #100
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    I could understand frustration with a tie if it had been a negative game where both teams were playing not to lose. However, this was a game where both teams were going for the win the majority of the game. As the underdog, it would have been easy for the US to pull a striker for more help on defense after getting to the second half tied up. The safe call would have been to bunker down and play for the tie. Instead, they kept after it and still came away with a point against a better team. Not only does that help their chances of advancing, it also gives them a shot @ top spot in the group, with an easier draw in the knockout rounds.
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  12. #101
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    My ratings...

    Tim Howard - 8

    Steven Cherundolo - 8

    Oguchi Onyewu - 7.5

    Jay DeMerit - 7

    Carlos Bocanegra - 6

    Landon Donovan - 7.5

    Clint Dempsey - 7

    Michael Bradley - 6.75

    Ricardo Clark - 5.5

    Jozy Altidore - 6.5

    Robbie Findley - 6
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  13. #102
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    No it's not. The reason is because we aren't the best in the world, or at least near the best in the world. The USMNT didn't even qualify for the WC for 40 years, and there was no domestic league for decades. The MLS is the first viable, long term domestic league we've ever had. Tough to go from no WC interest to widespread WC passion in two decades, when 4 years of build up leads to "Well, we might be pretty good this time".

    Soccer is growing in America, and our USMNT program is better than ever and continues to show improvement. If the MLS can continue to grow and get more name players (even well beyond their prime), soccer can become mainstream. It'll never be #1, but it can and probably will at some point become a solid #4 ahead of hockey.
    The reason we're not the best in the world is because our best athletes don't want to play soccer. if folks like Deion Sanders and Eric Davis played soccer we'd likely dominate.

    I'm intrigued by what you folks see in a soccer game that keeps you glued to the TV. In this 1-1 tie, the US only had 4 shots on goal, England 6. So the US only had four chances to score. In the NFL a team has a chance to score on every snap. In baseball you can score on any pitch. What's exciting about action going on in the middle of the field?

    I keep trying to give soccer one more chance and then I get a game like this. It seems as though about half the games so far have ended in ties.

  14. #103
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Good draw. I like the outcome, even though the post had to keep it tied.

    Loved the play of Howard in goal.

  15. #104
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    I pretty much only watch soccer during the World Cup because I think it can be boring to watch at times. I played GK in high school, so I do think that it's fun to play.

    Having said that, today's match was a lot of fun to watch. Tim Howard was fantastic.

    As for the ties. The early matches are all about points. It's not like there won't be a winner and a loser in the end, it's just a different format of getting there. I don't think that's why it's not as big in America. There may be a point to be made about the lack of scoring chances.

  16. #105
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    Re: USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - Catch-all

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The reason we're not the best in the world is because our best athletes don't want to play soccer. if folks like Deion Sanders and Eric Davis played soccer we'd likely dominate.

    I'm intrigued by what you folks see in a soccer game that keeps you glued to the TV. In this 1-1 tie, the US only had 4 shots on goal, England 6. So the US only had four chances to score. In the NFL a team has a chance to score on every snap. In baseball you can score on any pitch. What's exciting about action going on in the middle of the field?

    I keep trying to give soccer one more chance and then I get a game like this. It seems as though about half the games so far have ended in ties.
    I wouldn't say dominate, but if our best athletes grew up playing the game we'd certainly be among the best in the world, right with Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy and France and always a WC favorite.

    For me it's the free flowing nature that builds toward goal. And it's not like football, baseball and basketball don't have down time, in soccer the ball just happens to be in play while things are kind of reset for the next attack.

    I don't think anyone is claiming the US-England game to be a work of art. It wasn't a terrible match, but it wasn't an instant classic.

    Your points are interesting, but the response I get most from non-soccer fans is about the clock. Unlike pretty much every other sport, the actual length of a soccer game is completely arbitrary. 90 minutes is a set guideline, but it's up to the referee to decide exactly how long the game will last.
    Last edited by guttle11; 06-13-2010 at 06:16 AM.
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