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Thread: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

  1. #16
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    What's different? IMO the biggest change is health. Plain and simple. Sure, Cabrera's helped, as has Rolen and Leake. But just being healthy is an unbelievable boost to this team IMO. I still firmly believe we could've seen something like this (not to this extreme) last year if not for all the DL trips. This team's chemistry was solid last year as well.
    Even while succeeding up to this point last year the team had obvious holes.

    Alex Gonzalaz contributed nothing with his bat on a fairly regular occasion and he played everyday.His .210 AVG and .258 OBP last year is actually a bit misleading considering he got hot in his last few weeks with the Reds and while he did end up slipping down in the order he was one of three guys that could have helped the team much more last season if they would've just went away.

    The next one, Jerry Hairston Jr. isn't a real bad guy to have around but if you stick him toward the top of the lineup everyday he's going to end up hurting your team.A .250 BA and .300 OBA with little power isn't going to win you many games at the top of the order.

    We all know the last guy in the equation and he was by far the worst.After a nice start Willy Taveras did a nice job of leading the team down the crapper.I think that about sums it up for him.

    While you can point to a drop off in pitching and a few injuries when trying to figure out what went wrong last season I think the fact that the Reds plan was to pencil these three guys in everyday, is where you should start looking.You knew that every time the Reds took the field that if you included the pitcher, 4 out of the nine guys were going to be making outs the majority of the time.


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  3. #17
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    Even while succeeding up to this point last year the team had obvious holes.

    Alex Gonzalaz contributed nothing with his bat on a fairly regular occasion and he played everyday.His .210 AVG and .258 OBP last year is actually a bit misleading considering he got hot in his last few weeks with the Reds and while he did end up slipping down in the order he was one of three guys that could have helped the team much more last season if they would've just went away.

    The next one, Jerry Hairston Jr. isn't a real bad guy to have around but if you stick him toward the top of the lineup everyday he's going to end up hurting your team.A .250 BA and .300 OBA with little power isn't going to win you many games at the top of the order.

    We all know the last guy in the equation and he was by far the worst.After a nice start Willy Taveras did a nice job of leading the team down the crapper.I think that about sums it up for him.

    While you can point to a drop off in pitching and a few injuries when trying to figure out what went wrong last season I think the fact that the Reds plan was to pencil these three guys in everyday, is where you should start looking.You knew that every time the Reds took the field that if you included the pitcher, 4 out of the nine guys were going to be making outs the majority of the time.
    I agree that all those players (and specifically the spots in the lineup they were occupying) were serious downgrades to this teams roster. But at this stage last year, we were pretty much right where we are now. It's also right about this time that we started to lose people. Had we not had all the injuries...I highly doubt we would've kept running Taveras, Hairston & Gonzo out there on a nightly basis if they were playing like they were. We had options down on the farm and even some on the roster. But the injuries pretty much cemented playing time for some of those guys (Taveras in particular). Of course I could be wrong, but in my mind, we would've been a MUCH better team without the injuries. Much moreso than many here expected. Heck, I felt the same way about this team and got laughed at quite a bit. I'm usually overly optimistic to a fault, but this current run hasn't surprised me that much. Gomes BA has, Leake's stability has, Hanigan's BA has, Rolen's power has. But Phillips' lack of power has, Bruce's has, Aaron's struggles have, and the bullpens' struggles have too. Balance both ways for me. So yeah, biggest difference in my eyes is the health.

  4. #18
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    What's different? IMO the biggest change is health. Plain and simple. Sure, Cabrera's helped, as has Rolen and Leake. But just being healthy is an unbelievable boost to this team IMO. I still firmly believe we could've seen something like this (not to this extreme) last year if not for all the DL trips. This team's chemistry was solid last year as well.
    It clearly hurt to lose Votto for several weeks last year; but he's been out of the lineup for three days now, and the club is 3-0 in those games. (That's not to say that the Reds don't need him back ASAP.)

    The biggest injury last year was, what, Volquez? Well, he's still out.

  6. #20
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    It clearly hurt to lose Votto for several weeks last year; but he's been out of the lineup for three days now, and the club is 3-0 in those games. (That's not to say that the Reds don't need him back ASAP.)

    The biggest injury last year was, what, Volquez? Well, he's still out.
    I heard or read somewhere the Reds record with Votto out of the lineup is somewhere around 20-18. Small sample size but not horrific.

    Saw it on Lance's blog.

    2009 Reds record without Joey Votto 17-17

    2010 Reds record without Joey Votto 3-0
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 05-29-2010 at 02:51 PM.

  7. #21
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    1. The Pitching.

    2. Getting on base increases your chances to score runs. The Reds have been getting on base more this year, especially the top of the batting order.

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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Its simple Dusty didn't wait until it was too late to change a lineup that wasnt working and found a lineup that does work. If this had been last year we might not have fallen off the face of the map and actually had a chance in August.
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  9. #23
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Lucking into an ace-level performer thus far (Leake), returning a guy from the toughest division in baseball to the easiest (Rolen), and keeping the automatic outs to a bare minimum.
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  10. #24
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Three main reasons the team is much improved:

    1. No offensive black holes.
    I talked about it this offseason, but was largely dismissed as either a Pollyanna or, basically, told I was an idiot. Jocketty's fielded a team with as many decent to good bats as possible while also getting rid of those bats that really, really struggle. For 2010, he's replaced the really, really bad bats (09 EdE and Rosales, AGon and Janish, 09 Bruce, and Taveras) with better ones that don't project to drop off so much.

    2. Health
    Only Volquez of the major contributors has been out more than a couple days and he was hurt long enough ago to make plans. Depth has also played a major part, as Heisey has taken Dickerson's spot and outplayed him by a wide, wide margin. Mighty Miguel has played well in Votto's spot and Janish, Hanigan, and Nix have all played great. The only bench guy who've struggled thus far are Dickerson (who's likely to improve if he gets a chance) and Francisco (who was only up for six ABs). Talk about a HUGE upgrade!

    3. Aggressiveness

    First to third on a single has become de riguer around the lineup. They're playing hard and, for the most part, smart. Not only that, the starting pitching has been really effective in throwing strikes.

  11. #25
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    It clearly hurt to lose Votto for several weeks last year; but he's been out of the lineup for three days now, and the club is 3-0 in those games. (That's not to say that the Reds don't need him back ASAP.)

    The biggest injury last year was, what, Volquez? Well, he's still out.
    Memories fade.

    Edwin struggled out of the gate and went on the DL for a long portion of the season starting in late April/early May.

    Masset went on the DL in May
    Edinson went on the DL in May
    Votto went on the DL in May

    Lincoln to the DL in June
    Gonzo to the DL in June

    That's not even counting all the other days missed due to injuries before they decided to put guys on the DL.

    All of those combined with the early struggles of several players (Bruce & Phillips), those playing injured apparently (Edwin & Gonzo), and some not playing much (Gomes & Janish) and some playing regularly who shouldn't have been (Rosales, Taveras & Hairston).

    It was more than Votto & Edinson.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 05-29-2010 at 03:18 PM.

  12. #26
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Memories fade.

    Edwin struggled out of the gate and went on the DL for a long portion of the season starting in late April/early May.

    Masset went on the DL in May
    Edinson went on the DL in May
    Votto went on the DL in May

    Lincoln to the DL in June
    Gonzo to the DL in June

    All of those combined with the early struggles of several players (Bruce & Phillips), those playing injured apparently (Edwin & Gonzo), and some not playing much (Gomes & Janish) and some playing regularly who shouldn't have been (Rosales, Taveras & Hairston).

    It was more than Votto & Edinson.
    I don't think losing Edwin, Lincoln, and Gonzo played a hand in that team's fortune. It just wasn't a deep team, and guys like Taveras and Edwin were starting even when the team WAS fully healthy. Losing Votto and Edinson certainly hurt, but Edinson was hardly himself even before leaving for the year. And even if Votto needs goes on the DL for an extended period of time, the Reds still probably aren't a .500 team.

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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Disagree. I think, with Volquez, Votto, Bruce, and, yes, a healthy EdE (along with AGon and the pen), last year's team was just over .500.

    I think this year's team is much better than that, if they can stay healthy.

  14. #28
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    I disagree. Edwin stuggled mightily prior to the DL trip and Dusty kept trotting him out there. He was a borderline .100 hitter. If he'd been healthy and normal...different story. Gonzo was playing very poorly too prior to being DL'd and again, they kept sending him out there. If they'd just DL'd him then and there, we would've seen Janish there...probably not much difference offensively (compared to what Gonzo was doing then...not his freakish year THIS year) but defensively it would've been a big plus.

    IMO, losing Edwin & him playing injured before the DL stint hurt the club more than Joey being out for a while. That club desperately needed his bat in the lineup. His expected bat that is.

    But whatever. That's over and done. We're in first and all is right with the world. :O)

  15. #29
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Last season the rotation went south at about this time. Arroyo had a horrible June, Volquez was lost in late May and Cueto started giving it up a lot. As poor as the left side of the IF and the OF was, the rotation blowing up (in a bad way) ended any hopes for contention before the offense could completely kill it on its own.
    And that is the one thing that concerns me, and was somewhat amplified this past week when Homer went on the DL. I don't care what we do, or how much we may improve on the offensive side, our pitching has to be consistent and our strong point this year if we are going to stay in this thing till the end. Because right now, and I hope I'm wrong as can be; but I think this offense is playing way above their heads and will come somewhat back to earth. And we are going to need consistency from our staff to keep us in ball games.
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  16. #30
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    Re: So What Is Different, If Anything, From This Year's Team To Last Year's?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    And that is the one thing that concerns me, and was somewhat amplified this past week when Homer went on the DL. I don't care what we do, or how much we may improve on the offensive side, our pitching has to be consistent and our strong point this year if we are going to stay in this thing till the end. Because right now, and I hope I'm wrong as can be; but I think this offense is playing way above their heads and will come somewhat back to earth. And we are going to need consistency from our staff to keep us in ball games.
    This team defied the odds and got to Memorial Day strongly in contention. That's a great thing. But, they've ridden a pretty big hot streak from the bats and the arms to basically get even with the Cards. They simply won't play this well all season. Now that they are in position, they should be looking to cash in some of the near ready interchangeable parts for a Front-Line Starter, a reliever and a strong lefty bat.

    I'd start by finding a way to convert Harang and three or four decent kids into Roy Oswalt. If they can add another kid and get Matt Lindstrom too as suggested by somebody pretty smart in another thread, they should do it.

    Alonso, Wood/Maloney, Frazier/Valaika and Ondrusek/Del Rosario/Fisher along with Harang should do it I'd think. I wouldn't hold back.
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