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Thread: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

  1. #16
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Chapman with just 45.2 IP so far this year. Needs another 12 or 13 starts in AAA IMO and then a call to the pen for August and September.
    This is what I would prefer. Barring an injury from someone in the rotation, why rush him? It's not even necessary right now. Let him get comfortable and show he can be consistent first. Something he hasn't proven just yet.

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  3. #17
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Mutual options must be exercised by both parties in order to take effect. For that reason, they rarely go through.

  4. #18
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    I wouldn't bring Chapman up and put him in the bullpen this early. Like mth said, he needs more starts in order to build up his arm. I don't have a problem bringing him up later in the season to strengthen the Reds bullpen but for now he needs to continue starting every fifth day.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #19
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    This depth is why I think it is such a genius move to deal Harang (with other pieces) to Houston for Oswalt.

  6. #20
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyenut View Post
    This depth is why I think it is such a genius move to deal Harang (with other pieces) to Houston for Oswalt.
    Oswalt has 2011 left on his contract and at a steep price. We already have Cueto, Volquez, Leake, and Bailey for the 2011 rotation with Chapman a strong possibility. Could Oswalt be better next year than one of them? Maybe. For the price I'm not sure it would be worth it though.

    As far as this year goes I think the biggest need is help for the bullpen. Trying to add Oswalt would only make sense if they could deal Arroyo or Harang. It's possible but I'd still prefer relief help. Besides, there will likely be other teams that want/need him more.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  7. #21
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Oswalt has 2011 left on his contract and at a steep price. We already have Cueto, Volquez, Leake, and Bailey for the 2011 rotation with Chapman a strong possibility. Could Oswalt be better next year than one of them? Maybe. For the price I'm not sure it would be worth it though.

    As far as this year goes I think the biggest need is help for the bullpen. Trying to add Oswalt would only make sense if they could deal Arroyo or Harang. It's possible but I'd still prefer relief help. Besides, there will likely be other teams that want/need him more.
    Too many kids in a rotation is a ticket to having the better ones on the DL since those are the ones you'll ride the hardest as the others go through growing pains. Oswalt at the top as the vet and leader seems like a good idea with a young staff. Volquez will need to be babied for a year. Leake and Chapman are still too young to ride too hard. Cueto is a little guy who I have doubts about after 180 IP or so. That just leaves Bailey as a guy to pencil in for 200 IP and he's on the DL with a sore arm as we speak.

    If the Reds could package say Alonso, Frazier, Wood and Ondrusek with Harang for Oswalt and say a reliever like Lindstrom, I think its a no brainer. Then let Arroyo walk at season's end and go with Oswalt and the kids as the group for 2011. The Reds can afford it and they still would have plenty of depth in the system.

    I don't really see any of those guys having a starting spot before 2013 on this team anyway.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #22
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Too many kids in a rotation is a ticket to having the better ones on the DL since those are the ones you'll ride the hardest as the others go through growing pains. Oswalt at the top as the vet and leader seems like a good idea with a young staff. Volquez will need to be babied for a year. Leake and Chapman are still too young to ride too hard. Cueto is a little guy who I have doubts about after 180 IP or so. That just leaves Bailey as a guy to pencil in for 200 IP and he's on the DL with a sore arm as we speak.
    If they need a veteran arm in the 2011 rotation they could always pick up the option for Arroyo.
    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If the Reds could package say Alonso, Frazier, Wood and Ondrusek with Harang for Oswalt and say a reliever like Lindstrom, I think its a no brainer. Then let Arroyo walk at season's end and go with Oswalt and the kids as the group for 2011. The Reds can afford it and they still would have plenty of depth in the system.
    I'll pass.
    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't really see any of those guys having a starting spot before 2013 on this team anyway.
    You don't think Alonso, Frazier, or Wood could be a starter before 2013? Really?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  9. #23
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    If they need a veteran arm in the 2011 rotation they could always pick up the option for Arroyo.

    I'll pass.

    You don't think Alonso, Frazier, or Wood could be a starter before 2013? Really?
    Who sits for Alonso or Frazier? Votto? Bruce? Stubbs? Rolen? Phillips? And if one of the OF does, are they better than Heisey or even Gomes? Frazier might be pretty good as a supersub, but as an every day guy he can't catch and he can't play SS (and probably not 2B) and the players in front of him are better than him at all the other positions. Alonso isn't going to beat out Votto and if the knock on Gomes in LF is defense, then how is Alonso any better? If I had to make a defensive compromise for the bat, I'd rather have the big time power.

    Wood isn't going to start in front of Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman or Leake. Its questionable whether he's even better than Maloney or Lecure IMO.

    Ondrusek might be a decent middle of the pen RH option, but so is Del Rosario and Fisher. Guys like Lecure, Klinker and Owings won't find room in the rotation and might be as well.

    These guys best use in this organization is as trade bait and if dealing them for a TOR starter and a back-end relief arm in a year when the team is in first on Memorial day isn't a good use, then I'm not sure what they would use them for. I guess we could put them in a display case and tell the world that we once had a deep system.

    I like Arroyo (in fact I have consistently defended him when the entire board wanted him gone last year and other times) and wouldn't mind the Reds bringing him back, but Oswalt is a better pitcher for 2011. The move suggested may not even be possible, but if so would be a move to put them in position to win in 2010 and 2011 w/o blowing the budget or really giving up as much of the future as many seem to believe.
    Last edited by mth123; 05-30-2010 at 12:57 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #24
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    These guys best use in this organization is as trade bait and if dealing them for a TOR starter and a back-end relief arm in a year when the team is in first on Memorial day isn't a good use, then I'm not sure what they would use them for. I guess we could put them in a display case and tell the world that we once had a deep system.
    If we're going to deal those guys I'd rather it be for a better shortstop and a reliever. Not an expensive pitcher on the wrong side of 30.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  11. #25
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    If we're going to deal those guys I'd rather it be for a better shortstop and a reliever. Not an expensive pitcher on the wrong side of 30.
    If you'll notice, I included a reliever coming back in that deal. As for SS, give me a name. The TOR starter is available and the Reds have a need. Who is available at SS that is better than what we have?
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #26
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If you'll notice, I included a reliever coming back in that deal. As for SS, give me a name. The TOR starter is available and the Reds have a need. Who is available at SS that is better than what we have?
    Yes, I noticed that you had a reliever included in your proposed deal. We have a bigger need for a starting pitcher than a GOOD shortstop? You may think that but I don't. As to who I don't know. Who knows who may be available in the next couple months or even in the offseason. But do those guys have to be dealt today? Don't think so.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  13. #27
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Yes, I noticed that you had a reliever included in your proposed deal. We have a bigger need for a starting pitcher than a GOOD shortstop? You may think that but I don't. As to who I don't know. Who knows who may be available in the next couple months or even in the offseason. But do those guys have to be dealt today? Don't think so.
    They don't have to be dealt now, but opportunity doesn't always knock exactly on schedule. The Reds need an upgrade to the rotation, the pen and the positional guys for the long haul. This deal gets two out of three. Waiting gets zero at this point.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #28
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    They don't have to be dealt now, but opportunity doesn't always knock exactly on schedule. The Reds need an upgrade to the rotation, the pen and the positional guys for the long haul. This deal gets two out of three. Waiting gets zero at this point.
    How much they "need" that upgrade is debatable but I'd still prefer filing the bigger need at short. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  15. #29
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    How much they "need" that upgrade is debatable but I'd still prefer filing the bigger need at short. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    Cabrera is better at his job than Harang is at his IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  16. #30
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Cabrera is better at his job than Harang is at his IMO.
    Maybe. I'd rather have Chapman replacing Harang in 2011 than bring back Oldlando though. If you want to go another couple years without a GOOD shortstop that's up to you.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."


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