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Thread: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

  1. #46
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    What's getting lost here is the money. For the Reds to take on a player, they need to shed a salary. The only one that makes sense to shed is Harang. That opens a spot in the rotation that needs to be filled. I personally don't want to leave that job to Chapman, Maloney, Lecure or Wood. By August Chapman and Leake may both be up against their innings limits. Adding an arm seems like a necessity to me. Add the uncertainty over Bailey and its even more necessary to get a TOR horse that can be relied upon through a rotation that could be filled with question marks for August and September. Harang is already a question mark, Bailey isn't established and has a health issue, Leake and Chapman may both be unavailable. Converting Harang's spot from question mark to rock solid is essential. Possibly Volquez can step in for Leake when he needs to be shutdown and the kids can be used as depth to cover for injury or performance issues with Bailey or one of the others.

    I'd love to get a top SS, but I just don't see how the reds could do it money wise and the current guys (including Cozart later in the year) are probably good enough. The rotation with Harang now a shaky #4 or #5, Bailey hurt and still settling in and Leake probably being lost to the team later in the year is a bigger need IMO.
    Last edited by mth123; 05-31-2010 at 12:28 PM.
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  3. #47
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Harang & spare parts for Oswalt & Lindstrom would be a fantastic trade for the Reds. even if a couple of these spare parts were pretty good prospects. IMO Chapman is the only untouchable guy in the system because only he has the real potential to be a perennial All Star. Oswalt takes a rotation spot that is iffy & upgrades it to TOR. Lindstrom is the additional 8th inning guy we desperately need.

    as to Chapman he may not be able to crack the Reds 2010 rotation. depends on how Harang pitches & Bailey does when he returns from the DL. i am 100%ok with Chapman out of the pen this season. however, i wouldn't rush him just because our current relievers are struggling.
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  4. #48
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Harang's xFIP is 3.84.

    Leake's xFIP is 4.07.


    I wouldn't be so eager to sell. We've seen how peripherals have a way of being born out over time with Volquez and Cueto's hot starts in recent years, along with the fact that Arroyo always seems to bring it together by years end.
    I think Harang can still be a very valuable asset to this team. That said....at 12M per year, for what looks to be the Reds #4 or #5 starter.....I'd sell him in a heartbeat to get anything back of value.

    Best case scenario would be for a stud middle infielder a couple years away and a quality bullpen arm.
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  5. #49
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    I'm not sure the Astros would want Harang.. Maybe if we sent them Harang and prospects in order to balance salaries, they might get interested.

    IMO, including Harang is a negative for a team like the Astros. They want youth for Oswalt, not a pending FA.

    But yes, I would do Harang + some B prospects for Oswalt in a heartbeat.
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  6. #50
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I'm not sure the Astros would want Harang.. Maybe if we sent them Harang and prospects in order to balance salaries, they might get interested.

    IMO, including Harang is a negative for a team like the Astros. They want youth for Oswalt, not a pending FA.

    But yes, I would do Harang + some B prospects for Oswalt in a heartbeat.
    Harang to the Astros in an Oswalt deal does make sense. Granted Harang would basically be a salary concession but it makes sense. He wouldn't be the key in the deal and he would probably have to accompany 2 or more decent prospects.

    But the deal makes sense to me in that it allows the Astros to free up salary room in 2011 while also picking up some prospects. It allows the Reds in 2010 to make a big addition without adding much if any additional salary. Then in 2011 with Harang off the books, as well as possibly Arroyo, the Reds are able to bolster the rotation without taking on additional salary.

  7. #51
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Harang to the Astros in an Oswalt deal does make sense. Granted Harang would basically be a salary concession but it makes sense. He wouldn't be the key in the deal and he would probably have to accompany 2 or more decent prospects.

    But the deal makes sense to me in that it allows the Astros to free up salary room in 2011 while also picking up some prospects. It allows the Reds in 2010 to make a big addition without adding much if any additional salary. Then in 2011 with Harang off the books, as well as possibly Arroyo, the Reds are able to bolster the rotation without taking on additional salary.
    This deal does make sense, but it would cost the Reds two prospects of high caliber. The big problem is that there will be competition for Oswalt.

    The Harang part is relatively easy. Stros get salary relief for next year and Reds get the more highly rated pitcher. No big issue there.

    The hard part is that the Astros will want two high level prospects. Reds will have to be willing to trade them.

  8. #52
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Any team willing to part with prospects AND take on all of Oswalt's salary -- i.e., Washington -- is going to blow away any offer the Reds will make. I don't see the Reds really being in the running on this one. I imagine the efforts on the trade front will be focused on the bullpen.
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  9. #53
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    The Astros have no need for Harang if they have no need for Oswald, any idea that he fits in to a package for him is seriously fantasy land.

    They'd take magic beans before they took Harang.

  10. #54
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    woy, harang's salary is coming off next year, Oswalt's isn't. Astros might take him on for a few months as long as the Reds ship the appropriate prospects with him. I don't think that is fantasyland at all.

  11. #55
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Finding prospects that Houston would like will be difficult. If we were 'Stros fans, we'd want two or three top young prospects if the money is going to be a wash - not B+ prospects.

    I'm thinking the Reds would have to consider one or both of Stubbs/Bailey to get any deal started. So, could the Reds live with a Stubbs, Harang, Lecure or Bailey package going to Houston for Oswalt?

  12. #56
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Heisey/Bailey/Harang/Alonso.

    I bet Houston would listen to that.

    Not sure the Reds can swing taking on Oswalt's salary, but I bet the Astros would at least listen to that.

  13. #57
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    woy, harang's salary is coming off next year, Oswalt's isn't. Astros might take him on for a few months as long as the Reds ship the appropriate prospects with him. I don't think that is fantasyland at all.
    If you have a few chips and no minor league system like the Astros, and you have the press up your butt, and a guy who who wants to be traded why take a body (harang) that not only incures cost (balance of salary, buyout) but replaces cost efficient young talent that would come over instead?

    Makes no sense to me.

  14. #58
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    If you have a few chips and no minor league system like the Astros, and you have the press up your butt, and a guy who who wants to be traded why take a body (harang) that not only incures cost (balance of salary, buyout) but replaces cost efficient young talent that would come over instead?

    Makes no sense to me.
    It may just be part of the trade. Its all what the Astros are looking for. I doubt its very much salary relief because Drayton McClain has plenty of money. You also have to consider if you trade Oswalt the Astros will need to find someone to replace his starts and innings. I don't know much about their young pitching in the minors but I do know their system is pretty barren.

    So on the surface does it make any sense? Maybe, maybe not, but if the Reds are offering the best package of prospects, they may have to take on Harang for the rest of the season.

  15. #59
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    If you have a few chips and no minor league system like the Astros, and you have the press up your butt, and a guy who who wants to be traded why take a body (harang) that not only incures cost (balance of salary, buyout) but replaces cost efficient young talent that would come over instead?

    Makes no sense to me.
    That may be, but this isn't 1996 anymore, and teams like Houston are required to take a player like Harang IF they want to get certain prospects. That's how deals like this get done more often than not in 2010. Sure, if Houston can find a deal it wants where they don't have to take a Harang for a few months to get the prospects they want, they will do that. But that kind of deal may not present itself for them.

    The Reds would certainly need to try and off-load a few months of Harang. If that's a dealbreaker, then it's a dealbreaker.

  16. #60
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman is close according to Jocketty

    Chapman's last three starts:

    17.2 IP, 10 H, 0 HR, 7 BB, 19 K, 1.05 ERA

    Last night he threw all fastballs in the first inning and then they had him throwing mostly offspeed stuff the rest of the night. He threw only 88 pitches in 7 innings last night which was his most efficient outing of the season. I think it's impressive he's still able to go out there and pitch well while working on things at the same time. I'd like to see him get some more starts in Louisville but I think we'll see him in Cincinnati at some point later in the season.
    I miss Adam Dunn.


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