Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29

Thread: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

  1. #1
    Marty Moose!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    215

    1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    With today's loss, the next two games could be potential turning points to the season. Lose the next two games, and I fear this could be 2006 all over again. In 2006, the Reds peaked at 36-24, and then quickly lost a bunch of games in a row to fall back to .500 by late June. The Reds simply cannot get swept, they have to find a way to win at least one of these games the next two days. I realize that if they do get swept, it's still not even a third of the way through the season, but avoiding a sweep would go a long way in not repeating the slide that happened in '06. (Which by the way, a sweep to the Cards was part of the losing streak that brought them back to .500).

    Is this another 1999 team? I'd like to think so, but I doubt it. Is this another 2006 season? I really hope not. My hope is that the starting pitching is good enough to avoid long losing streaks and keep them above the .500 mark. If they can do this, and avoid a bunch of injuries, they'll stay in the hunt, and anything can happen. My guess is that they'll finish somewhere around their last winning season - 2000, where they won 85 games. Will this be good enough to make the playoffs?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    6,419

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    the 2006 team wasnt terrible. They had 1 awful road trip late that ruined that year. I dont see this team really falling off that badly because its full of better all around baseball players and they have veterans that arent lazy and just collecting paychecks or just out for themselves.

  4. #3
    got alil captain in u?
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Bridgeport Ohio
    Posts
    4,839

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    I would venture to say this team is more towards 1999. The starting pitching is way different than in 2006. Better lineup also. Bullpen might be slightly worse though.

  5. #4
    Formerly Farsighted Fan sabometrics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Edgewood, KY
    Posts
    632

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    It is neither. This is a completely different team, with an identity entirely its own.

    Even if they get swept in St. Louis there is little reason to panic when the offense looks capable and the rotation looks strong enough, and even more importantly, deep enough to sustain a few injuries and still keep on rolling with quality options in AAA. That's the biggest reason I'm optimistic about this team as opposed to past seasons is the pitching. I'm confident the starting pitching will be there and will keep us in the running, barring multiple extended injuries.

    Leake is a crafty pitcher with wisdom on the mound beyond his years. Arroyo is a dependable, rubber-armed vet with the same crafty aura on the mound. Cueto is coming of age. While Bailey hasn't shown his best this season as of yet there's still reason to believe he can be great. He has developed a fire in him that feels like could make him an intimidating presence every 5th day when he gets back out there. Harang is a veteran that, despite all the ire he brings out on this board, is still valuable as a back of the rotation starter. And having guys like Chapman, LeCure, Wood, and Maloney in AAA to fall back on that we have not had in the past is further reason to be encouraged.

    The bullpen is horrible right now, but that alone is not reason enough to write this team off.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,585

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    This is new ground.

    I haven't seen a group of Starters like this before.

  7. #6
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Geez. Did you expect Arroyo to keep dominating all season? He has games like this from time to time.

    The Cardinals got swept IN ST. LOUIS by the last place Houston Astros back around May 11th, in a 3 game series. Did their season end then?

    It happens. Knock it off with the panic button already. When we fall to 3rd or 4th, then we can start having this discussion. But right now we're still tied for 1st place and have one of the better records in baseball.

    Our starters are going to have rough outings from time to time. We're going to go through injuries here and there. We're going to have rain delays that mess us up or sometimes mess up the other club. Stuff happens.

    Every time we lose it gives someone reason to be negative. Can't we be happy for once?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    500

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    If the Reds get swept by the Cards this week, then that probably ruins their chances for the next 5...6 seasons at least.


  9. #8
    Dissident
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    86

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    It's always hard to tell how a young team will react to adversity. Most of the time you don't know if a team is the real deal until late July or August.

    I think the Reds have a good chance of sticking around because of the veteran leadership in the clubhouse. You have guys that have won it all (Rolen, Cabrera, Arroyo) and other guys with plenty of postseason experience like Miguel Cairo.

    Take it from a guy who's been watching baseball for over 40 years. Keep an eye on your road W/L record. If you win more than you lose on the road, you have a fine team.
    Central Division Champions - 1996, 2000, 2002, 2004-6, 2009
    NL Champions 2004, 2006, 2011
    World Champions 2006, 2011

  10. #9
    Marty Moose!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    215

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Who's being negative? I never said the season was over if they get swept. All I am saying is that if they can avoid the sweep and win one of the next two games, i think they'll be in this race for the whole year. If they do get swept, it's not the end of the world, and I still think they can hang around. But the Reds need to believe they can not only play with the Cards, but beat them, and beat them in their own park. They proved last series in Cincy they can beat them. I want them to prove they can win in St. Louis. That is a huge confidence booster for a young team. To win this division, you have to take down the best, and the Cards have been the class of the division for the last few years. I'm sure the Cards are waiting for the Reds to fade away like past years. If they avoid the sweep, or even take 2 out of 3, the Reds are making a statement that they're for real.

  11. #10
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    The Cardinals lineup features Pujols and Holliday. After that, I'm not impressed.

    So we have nobody at the level of Pujols. Statistically, Joey Votto isn't that far off, actually........but I won't go so far as to compare Joey to Albert. Not fair to either one of them.

    But after that, I'll put Votto, Rolen, Gomes, and Bruce up against the Cards 4 best hitters any day of the week. Our 4 beats their 4, in my opinion.

    Lohse and Penny are down for the count. Carpenter, Wainwright and Garcia are pretty tough. But Cueto and Leake aren't exactly slouches either.

    We trade for Cliff Lee, we wrap this thing up as soon as the ink is dry.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #11
    Dissident
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    86

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Quote Originally Posted by maniem View Post
    I'm sure the Cards are waiting for the Reds to fade away like past years.
    I'm sure they're not. I've read plenty of quotes from Cards players about how good a team the Reds have. Not to mention that La Russa keeps his team focused on the present. You don't win games by assuming the other guys aren't good enough to beat you.
    Central Division Champions - 1996, 2000, 2002, 2004-6, 2009
    NL Champions 2004, 2006, 2011
    World Champions 2006, 2011

  13. #12
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Quote Originally Posted by maniem View Post
    Who's being negative? I never said the season was over if they get swept. All I am saying is that if they can avoid the sweep and win one of the next two games, i think they'll be in this race for the whole year. If they do get swept, it's not the end of the world, and I still think they can hang around. But the Reds need to believe they can not only play with the Cards, but beat them, and beat them in their own park. They proved last series in Cincy they can beat them. I want them to prove they can win in St. Louis. That is a huge confidence booster for a young team. To win this division, you have to take down the best, and the Cards have been the class of the division for the last few years. I'm sure the Cards are waiting for the Reds to fade away like past years. If they avoid the sweep, or even take 2 out of 3, the Reds are making a statement that they're for real.
    If the Cardinals are going to base their entire season on beating up the Reds and being so-so against everyone else. I'll take that bet. Because even if we lose the overall against the Cardinals, we are taking care of business against everyone else.

    There is more to the season than just beating the Cardinals.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    733

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Geez. Did you expect Arroyo to keep dominating all season? He has games like this from time to time.
    That's been one of my fears. He doesn't just tend to have a game like this from "time to time", but rather he seems to always have a stretch of games where he just can't get anyone out. I hope this isn't the start of that run for him.....if so, that would be a bad sign for the hopes of a division championship.
    Sto Pro Veritate

  15. #14
    Marty Moose!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    215

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    The Cardinals lineup features Pujols and Holliday. After that, I'm not impressed.

    So we have nobody at the level of Pujols. Statistically, Joey Votto isn't that far off, actually........but I won't go so far as to compare Joey to Albert. Not fair to either one of them.

    But after that, I'll put Votto, Rolen, Gomes, and Bruce up against the Cards 4 best hitters any day of the week. Our 4 beats their 4, in my opinion.

    Lohse and Penny are down for the count. Carpenter, Wainwright and Garcia are pretty tough. But Cueto and Leake aren't exactly slouches either.

    We trade for Cliff Lee, we wrap this thing up as soon as the ink is dry.

    I agree with this completely. Outisde of Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, and Wainright, that is an average team at best. The Reds are more balanced, by far. It's more about believing and knowing they can beat the Cards. I'd love to see the Reds be the class of this division once again. And I hope this is the year they can finally do it.

  16. #15
    Marty Moose!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    215

    Re: 1999, 2006, or somewhere in between?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    If the Cardinals are going to base their entire season on beating up the Reds and being so-so against everyone else. I'll take that bet. Because even if we lose the overall against the Cardinals, we are taking care of business against everyone else.

    There is more to the season than just beating the Cardinals.
    Agree with this also. The Reds are taking care of business against teams they should be. The Cards are not. I guess as long as the Reds can win the division, it doesn't matter how they do it, just as long as they're at the top. Maybe this is how Red Sox fans felt towards the Yankees during their years of dominating the division. Sooner or later, you want to be able to take out the top dog yourself.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25