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Thread: the 6 untouchables

  1. #31
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    First of all I would agree that nobody is untouchable, but in the spirit of the original question for me it boils down to a pretty simple question. Is there anybody in our farm system that you are confident will be a upgrade over what we currently have on the major league team right now or even in the next year or 2?

    For me the only guy that fits that description is Chapman who has the chance to be an elite starter.

    Cozart and Wood might be slight upgrades to what is currenly in the majors but not so much that I would hesitate to trade them.

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  3. #32
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    I understand an untouchable as someone you dont see being traded and getting a good return.

    Would I trade Chapman? Yes. Would any team in baseball trade something good enough that would make me pull a trigger on any trade? highly unlikely. Thus making him untouchable.

  4. #33
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    In the spirit of the OP, I think everybody is putting way too much emphasis on the concept of untouchables, which was probably an unfortunate word choice. The OP acknowledged that there really aren't any of those. I think the spirit of the question is: If a trade stipulated that the other team could have anyone in your farm system except for six guys, who are the six guys you would protect?

    I'm thinking something on the order of Chapman, Mesoraco, Cozart, Yorman, Francisco, and one from among Wood, Joseph, Soto, Frazier, Hamilton, Valor, Klinker, maybe Cline or Jacob Johnson, and probably somebody I'm not thinking of at the moment. That assumes Heisey is a big-leaguer.

    Edit: Sorry, I missed kaldaniels' earlier post that said essentially the same thing.
    Last edited by mace; 06-04-2010 at 08:01 PM. Reason: addition

  5. #34
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Here's what I can't get past. If you're offered a player that won't take one of your best six prospects to get, why does it matter which six you won't give up to get him? It's not likely to be a great player you're receiving so why worry about giving up one of the six you value highest?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  6. #35
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    My list of prospects I would like to keep & why:

    1. Chapman (untouchable)
    2. Cozart. doing well in AAA. Cabrera is on a 1 year deal. possibly our SS in 2011
    3. Mesoraco. catchers & shortstops are hard to come by. even with his past struggles & his just recent promotion to AA I would like to keep him. however he certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker if it meant getting Oswalt, Reyes or some other stud.
    4. Wood. basically because he is close to the show. with possibly both Harang & Arroyo gone after this year i'd hesitate to deal him. while he may be 6th on the depth chart behind Cueto-Bailey-Leake-Volquez-Chapman depth is good & he could leapfrog a guy.

    so one 'untouchable' & three more guys i'd like to keep.
    .

  7. #36
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Here's what I can't get past. If you're offered a player that won't take one of your best six prospects to get, why does it matter which six you won't give up to get him? It's not likely to be a great player you're receiving so why worry about giving up one of the six you value highest?
    Our system is very, very deep, that's why!
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  8. #37
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    I can understand people not wanting to go on the record with their opinions lest the thread be bumped a la the Gomes thread in the ORG.

  9. #38
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    I take it to mean the 6 I'd least like to give up or would want the most for whether or not they are really untouchable. At this point in time my list would be:

    1. Chapman
    2. Mesoraco
    3. Cozart
    4. Y-Rod
    5. Wood
    6. Frazier
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #39
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Mes' stock is rising big-time it seems.

  11. #40
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Mes' stock is rising big-time it seems.
    Position scarcity plus performance gets you there. Tweeners who can hit a little are easy to find
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #41
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Our system is very, very deep, that's why!
    Heh, OK.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  13. #42
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Hmm, I agree no on is completely untouchable in this organization. Though you'd have one heck of a time prying Joey Votto from me, I'm sure others would deal him for much less than I. To me he is a Jeter a Larkin type player who you build around. Though I know this is about prospects so I'll play along.

    #1 - Chapman (though if it's KC calling and it's Greinke it's bye bye Aroldis).
    #2 - Yorman
    #3 - Billy Hamilton (this kid could be super special)
    #4 - Cozart (I'm partial to SS's)
    #5 - Mesoraco
    #6 - Frazier
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  14. #43
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Our system is very, very deep, that's why!
    Really? The system has promoted most of the top prospects to the majors and the remaining ones are in AAA (and struggling). This isn't to bash the Reds as this is the cycle a good farm system will endure.

  15. #44
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Nate's earlier question was a good one, IMO. I'd put it like this: most anything I can imagine wanting from another team is going to require one of the 6 best prospects in our system.

  16. #45
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    Re: the 6 untouchables

    Quote Originally Posted by joshnky View Post
    Really? The system has promoted most of the top prospects to the majors and the remaining ones are in AAA (and struggling). This isn't to bash the Reds as this is the cycle a good farm system will endure.
    Tongue firmly in cheek there.

    Although, I do think if the question is guarding 6 players, that still leaves room to shop with 4-9 other players. I think it's been brought up, but look at what fetched Phillips (Jeff Stevens). Another low cost player was Balentein. Look who left to Baltimore for Hernandez. See how Taveras was off loaded with Rosales. In reverse, Volquez for Texas might have fallen out of their top 6 scenario when he fetched Hamilton. So, while getting Cliff Lee won't be possible without top 6 talent in almost any organization, you can still be shopping with other guys and get as much or more than we've gotten before.

    Taking the RZ top 15, chopping off the top 6, there are some interesting possibilities, again, considering how much we've gotten in the past for far less:

    Prospect #1 - Aroldis Chapman
    Prospect #2 - Yonder Alonso
    Prospect #3 - Mike Leake - N/A
    Prospect #4 - Todd Frazier
    Prospect #5 - Juan Francisco
    Prospect #6 - Yorman Rodriguez
    Prospect #7 - Travis Wood

    Prospect #8 - Chris Heisey
    Prospect #9 - Zack Cozart
    Prospect #10 - Brad Boxberger
    Prospect #11 - Neftali Soto
    Prospect #12 - Matt Maloney
    Prospect #13 - Billy Hamilton
    Prospect #14 - Chris Valaika
    Prospect #15 - Matt Klinker


    vs. (edited)

    Jeff Stevens ----Brandon Phillips
    Robert Manuel ----Wladdy
    Justin Turner ----
    Brandon Waring (and freel's contract)---Hernandez
    Adam Rosales-----no Willy and cash
    etc.
    Last edited by mdccclxix; 06-06-2010 at 05:37 PM.
    Unofficial Johnny Cueto Cy Young Campaign President For Reds Fans by a Reds Fan
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