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Thread: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

  1. #1
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    Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Reds records by starting pitcher:

    Aaron Harang 4-8
    Johnny Cueto 8-3
    Bronson Arroyo 7-4
    Mike Leake 7-4
    Homer Bailey 5-4
    Sam LeCure 1-1

    Anyone notice a weak link??

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  3. #2
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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    the more I think about it the more I side with kickin' Harang out of the rotation when any starter is ready to move in. Volquez and Chapman especially.

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jhc2010 View Post
    Reds records by starting pitcher:

    Aaron Harang 4-8
    Johnny Cueto 8-3
    Bronson Arroyo 7-4
    Mike Leake 7-4
    Homer Bailey 5-4
    Sam LeCure 1-1

    Anyone notice a weak link??
    I think it is fair to say that Harang is not the best pitcher on this team and that he is far from an ace. I would certainly hesistate to argue that the team record when he pitches is simply a result of the way he pitches. Take for instance one of the teams loses against the Cubs,7ip 3runs. The opposig pitcher also went 7 innings and allowed 3 runs, but when he exited the game his team scored a run off of a reliever and the Reds did not. Look at yesterdays game, he struggled mightily but he only allowed 2 runs and the reds only scored 2 runs, and the game was not lost until two outfielders contributed to dropping a fly ball. If you go start to start, he has only failed to keep the reds in a game in two of his starts. However, he tends to be one of the least supported pitchers in the national league. I think if you look at his ERA last year 4.21 it is hard to understand how he could lose 14 games and only win six. Take a look at Johnny Cueto last year who went 11-11 with an era higher than Harangs. I am not comparing Harang to Oswalt who is a much better pitcher, but check out his win loss record and then take a look at his era and you will see that simply looking at a teams win loss record when a pitcher pitches without looking at or considering anything else is not a comprehensive way to judge a pitchers effectiveness. What is the Reds record in Mike Leakes last three starts before tonight?

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by kfm View Post
    What is the Reds record in Mike Leakes last three starts before tonight?
    Quality Starts (at least 6 innings, no more than 3 runs):
    Mike Leake 9 for 10 (.900)
    Aaron Harang 5 for 12 (.417)

    Harang consistantly does not give his team a reasonable chance of winning.

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jhc2010 View Post
    Quality Starts (at least 6 innings, no more than 3 runs):
    Mike Leake 9 for 10 (.900)
    Aaron Harang 5 for 12 (.417)

    Harang consistantly does not give his team a reasonable chance of winning.
    That is actually not true. If you look at his starts game to game he has had two starts when he has not given the team a chance to win. The reason I brought up Leake and his last 3 starts is to simply say looking at a teams record or a pitchers record alone, without looking at anything else is not a good way to judge the way a guy has pitched. I noticed you did not answer my question about Leake, but the team was 0-3 in his last 3 starts. Obviously based upon the premise of your original post one would surmise since the reds were 0-3 in his last 3 starts that Leake has pitched poorly which based upon your response we both know that is not true.

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by kfm View Post
    I noticed you did not answer my question about Leake
    Was I supposed to answer it?

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jhc2010 View Post
    Was I supposed to answer it?
    I didn't expect you too.

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Because Harang is a slug that inspires nobody. It's torture watching him pitch, I can only imagine being a teammate of his and playing in a game he pitches. He's a human rain delay out there. I just want to scream when he's pitching, "Hurry the hell up!!"

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInBama View Post
    Because Harang is a slug that inspires nobody. It's torture watching him pitch, I can only imagine being a teammate of his and playing in a game he pitches. He's a human rain delay out there. I just want to scream when he's pitching, "Hurry the hell up!!"
    I'm trying to remember and figure out, how Harang was so good his first couple of years. And also figure out why he's so bad now.

    He's still throwing in the 92-94 range on his fastball.

    Personally, I think he doesn't move his pitches around the strike zone enough. He tends to try and hit the outside corner in the same place all the time. He's very predictable.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Why can't the Reds win when Harang starts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm trying to remember and figure out, how Harang was so good his first couple of years. And also figure out why he's so bad now.

    He's still throwing in the 92-94 range on his fastball.

    Personally, I think he doesn't move his pitches around the strike zone enough. He tends to try and hit the outside corner in the same place all the time. He's very predictable.
    That too.


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