Yasmani Grandal

[PuffyPig]

I still say its more Agent bragging rights than anything.

If the player is good it doesnt really matter, and if hes bad he probably isnt making much in arbitration if he isnt non tendered before he even reaches it.

It makes the most difference where the player is acceptable, neither a star nor someone you want to release.

The team sticks him on the major league roster earlier than they would like, with hopes of recouping their investment. But for the player, that major league salary he is pulling down is quite a difference.

Plus, it saves you being sent to the minors simply becuase you are the one with options left.

[GIDP]

I understand the positives, but most of them only help someone who isnt good enough to cut it at the major league level, and most likely their bonus is the majority of their income anyways.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

* In addition to the signing bonus amount, with a Major League contract, he'll be getting paid $65k while in the minors instead of the going rate for the level he's on (which is usually less than $20k on all stops (except AAA). For A and AA ball, it's around $10-12K.

Not to derail the thread to much, but I've always wondered:

1. If a player is on the 40-man roster, and they spend the year in AAA (Valaika, Valliquette) or even AA, what do they make? 65K?

2. If/when they are called up, are they just paid a pro-rated of the 1st year/rookie minimum ($400K)?

3. What about a guy like Burton? He's spent the entire year in AAA, but it was due to injury so is he making his full salary $810K, right?

4. When Owings ($440K) and Herrera ($412K) were sent down are they still getting their full base salaries in AAA?

5. Even though he's been in AAA, is Balentien making the full $416K that Cott's lists.

6. If some players get the full salary and some do not, does making the 25-man out of spring training determine that?

7. Did Burton and Bray's service time clock start ticking from opening day or does it only start when they actually pitch on ther 25-man again?

8. Coming into the year, Cott's has Burton at 2 years 165 days service time, Owings (2 and 139), Bray (2 and 91), Volquez (2 and 120), Votto (2 and 27), and Cueto (2 and 0 days). Will all those guys be arb eligible this off-season and am I missing anyone?

9. I think I read somewhere on this board that even though Lehr was in AAA, he was awarded a guaranteed $400K contract. Are there any others in the Reds system (AAA or AA) like this?

10. If they are just "regular" minor leaguers, what are the average salaries for Rookie, A, A+, AA, and AAA.

11. What about DSL and VSL? Do they only start getting paid when they come over?

[LoganBuck]

Not to derail the thread to much, but I've always wondered:

1. If a player is on the 40-man roster, and they spend the year in AAA (Valaika, Valliquette) or even AA, what do they make? 65K? Yes

2. If/when they are called up, are they just paid a pro-rated of the 1st year/rookie minimum ($400K)? Yes

3. What about a guy like Burton? He's spent the entire year in AAA, but it was due to injury so is he making his full salary $810K, right? Burton was optioned to AAA he makes 65k

4. When Owings ($440K) and Herrera ($412K) were sent down are they still getting their full base salaries in AAA? No, they start making the minor league pay

5. Even though he's been in AAA, is Balentien making the full $416K that Cott's lists. Not sure, Balentien is probably making big bucks by minor league standards though, certainly not 416k

6. If some players get the full salary and some do not, does making the 25-man out of spring training determine that? Not sure what you are asking here

7. Did Burton and Bray's service time clock start ticking from opening day or does it only start when they actually pitch on ther 25-man again? Both were optioned to AAA they were not accruing service time, only using an option, when they got called up they started accruing service time again

8. Coming into the year, Cott's has Burton at 2 years 165 days service time, Owings (2 and 139), Bray (2 and 91), Volquez (2 and 120), Votto (2 and 27), and Cueto (2 and 0 days). Will all those guys be arb eligible this off-season and am I missing anyone? Most likely yes

9. I think I read somewhere on this board that even though Lehr was in AAA, he was awarded a guaranteed $400K contract. Are there any others in the Reds system (AAA or AA) like this? My guess is that Balentien would be the only one

10. If they are just "regular" minor leaguers, what are the average salaries for Rookie, A, A+, AA, and AAA. Not sure about the actual numbers but the salaries are shockingly low for Rookie and A ball guys.

11. What about DSL and VSL? Do they only start getting paid when they come over?

Many of these guys get signing bonuses, and then live in "baseball academies", I am sure the pay is quite low

[GIDP]

I dont know if these 2 are connected but Mes was promoted to AAA. Could it be possible that Yas goes straight to AA to finish out the season?

[lollipopcurve]

Could it be possible that Yas goes straight to AA to finish out the season?

Possible -- very challenging, but if they want him to go to the AFL this fall, getting a look at AA now would probably help him.

[GIDP]

Possible -- very challenging, but if they want him to go to the AFL this fall, getting a look at AA now would probably help him.

I personally would be surprised if they put him there.

I expect him to be in Arizona tonight and tomorrow be at their spring training park working to get back up to game speed for a week or so then being shipped somewhere like Dayton or Lynchburg to finish out the year.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Thanks, LoganBuck.

[Brutus]

LoganBuck answered your questions quite nicely, but I'll gladly add to his answers...

Not to derail the thread to much, but I've always wondered:

1. If a player is on the 40-man roster, and they spend the year in AAA (Valaika, Valliquette) or even AA, what do they make? 65K?

Yes. Pay is based on the major league seasons from the first scheduled game for a team to the last regularly scheduled game. If a player spends a full season in the minors, he makes $30,000 his first year on the 40-man roster, and $65,000 for every subsequent season or after he's earned one day in the big leagues.

2. If/when they are called up, are they just paid a pro-rated of the 1st year/rookie minimum ($400K)?

As mentioned, for every day that a player is active on the 25-man roster, he makes the pro-rated portion of league minimum (or whatever his contract calls for). So if there are 183 days in the season (which is standard), a player would make $400,000/183 or $2,185.79 for each day spent on the active roster.

3. What about a guy like Burton? He's spent the entire year in AAA, but it was due to injury so is he making his full salary $810K, right?

Players only get paid their full salaries if they are active, on the major league disabled, bereavement or temporary list, or simply have a split contract that guarantees their rate of pay. Further, players with 5 seasons of MLB service can earn their entire rate of pay if accepting an outright assignment prior to becoming a free agent at the end of the year.

4. When Owings ($440K) and Herrera ($412K) were sent down are they still getting their full base salaries in AAA?

They're making the veteran minimum for 40-man protection.

5. Even though he's been in AAA, is Balentien making the full $416K that Cott's lists.

As mentioned with split contracts, some Major League contracts have special covenants that provide for the rate of pay in the majors, but an elevated rate of pay in the minors. A few players, similar to this, are guaranteed the same rate of pay if they're sent to the minors. Many players will make $100-150K in the minors if they sign split contracts with several years of service, because the clubs reward them for being flexible.

6. If some players get the full salary and some do not, does making the 25-man out of spring training determine that?

Making the 25-man roster does not impact anyone's pay. With Balentien, it impacted it only from the standpoint he was out of options, so the Reds either had to keep him active or give him an outright assignment (to which he would first have to pass through waivers).

7. Did Burton and Bray's service time clock start ticking from opening day or does it only start when they actually pitch on ther 25-man again?

Every day up to 172 days each season that a player is either on the 15-day, 60-day DL or active roster accrues service.

8. Coming into the year, Cott's has Burton at 2 years 165 days service time, Owings (2 and 139), Bray (2 and 91), Volquez (2 and 120), Votto (2 and 27), and Cueto (2 and 0 days). Will all those guys be arb eligible this off-season and am I missing anyone?

As with most answers, Logan answered this, but also you can take into account some players will have Super 2 status (which usually is around 2 years and 110 days). This means players with 1 year and 110 days of current service who will be spending all year on the Reds' active roster would also likely wind up in arbitration. I'm not even sure there are any players that meet this criteria (I know that I haven't specifically looked), but that would be possible. Also keep in mind the "110 days" is just a general standard... it changes according to the top 17 percent of players with over 2 and less than 3 years of service each season.

9. I think I read somewhere on this board that even though Lehr was in AAA, he was awarded a guaranteed $400K contract. Are there any others in the Reds system (AAA or AA) like this?

10. If they are just "regular" minor leaguers, what are the average salaries for Rookie, A, A+, AA, and AAA.

Average minor league rates are around $6,000 for rookie, $8,000 for low-A, $10,000 to $12,000 for high-A, $12-15K for AA and $20-25K for AAA. Also, minor league players get a per diem when on the road (it's less than $30 though).

11. What about DSL and VSL? Do they only start getting paid when they come over?

Rookie players do get paid. Obviously in the case of draft picks and international signings, most of their income is from the signing bonus.

I think Logan covered most everything, but hopefully this covered the remaining bases.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

LoganBuck answered your questions quite nicely, but I'll gladly add to his answers...




I think Logan covered most everything, but hopefully this covered the remaining bases.

Great stuff. That's why I love this board.

By the way, Bruce was at 1.125 (1 year, 125 days) service time coming into the year.

Here's a few more for reference....

Arb eligible in 2011:

Burton: 2.165
Owings: 2.139
Volquez: 2.120
Bray: 2.091
Votto: 2.027
Cueto: 2.000


Arb eligible in 2012 and beyond:

Bruce: 1.125 (will be 2.125 after this year)
Hanigan: 1.077 (will be 2.077)
Janish: 1.064 (will be 2.064)
Herrera: 1.028 (will probably still be under 2.00, due to demotion)
Bailey: 1.017 (will be 2.017, as I assume he accrued svc time on D.L.)
Balentien: 1.131
Arredondo: 1.094
Fisher: 0.130
Stubbs: 0.047
Maloney: 0.045
Castillo: 0.028
Francisco: 0.021
Alonso 0.018 (why does he have service time?)

Had zero, but accrued time in 2010:

Mike Leake: 0.00
Logan Ondrusek: 0.00
Chris Heisey: 0.00
Jordan Smith: 0.00
Travis Wood: 0.00
Sam LeCure: 0.00
Enerio Del Rosario: 0.00

Zero time, and still no ML time:

Chapman: 0.00
Valaika: 0.00
Valliquette: 0.00

[redsfandan]

* In addition to the signing bonus amount, with a Major League contract, he'll be getting paid $65k while in the minors instead of the going rate for the level he's on (which is usually less than $20k on all stops (except AAA). For A and AA ball, it's around $10-12K.

It makes the most difference where the player is acceptable, neither a star nor someone you want to release.

The team sticks him on the major league roster earlier than they would like, with hopes of recouping their investment. But for the player, that major league salary he is pulling down is quite a difference.
Plus, it saves you being sent to the minors simply becuase you are the one with options left.

I think that's mostly an ego/pride thing. Thanks to the bonus he'll get I don't think Grandal will be hurting.

I still say that the Reds should hold onto that roster spot. They've got the leverage. Grandal doesn't.

[GIDP]

I think the Reds only gave Yonder one because they thought his bat was advanced enough. I have a hard time with this current group of people in charge willing to give that type of deal to a catcher unless he interviews amazingly.

[kaldaniels]

Do free agents (post-arb guys) have clauses in their contracts that guarantee their salary regardless of whether or not they get optioned down (assuming the player has options)?

[Brutus]

Great stuff. That's why I love this board.

By the way, Bruce was at 1.125 (1 year, 125 days) service time coming into the year.

Here's a few more for reference....

Arb eligible in 2011:

Burton: 2.165
Owings: 2.139
Volquez: 2.120
Bray: 2.091
Votto: 2.027
Cueto: 2.000


Arb eligible in 2012 and beyond:

Bruce: 1.125 (will be 2.125 after this year)
Hanigan: 1.077 (will be 2.077)
Janish: 1.064 (will be 2.064)
Herrera: 1.028 (will probably still be under 2.00, due to demotion)
Bailey: 1.017 (will be 2.017, as I assume he accrued svc time on D.L.)
Balentien: 1.131
Arredondo: 1.094
Fisher: 0.130
Stubbs: 0.047
Maloney: 0.045
Castillo: 0.028
Francisco: 0.021
Alonso 0.018 (why does he have service time?)

Had zero, but accrued time in 2010:

Mike Leake: 0.00
Logan Ondrusek: 0.00
Chris Heisey: 0.00
Jordan Smith: 0.00
Travis Wood: 0.00
Sam LeCure: 0.00
Enerio Del Rosario: 0.00

Zero time, and still no ML time:

Chapman: 0.00
Valaika: 0.00
Valliquette: 0.00

I haven't seen the estimated cut-off yet, but I do believe Jay Bruce is in line to be a Super-2 player for Arbitration this offseason. I forgot about him not being in your original list, but I know I've been banking on him being Arb-eligible this year. So he's a perfect example of that. He *could* miss it by a few days, but I believe he'll be eligible this offseason.

[Brutus]

Do free agents (post-arb guys) have clauses in their contracts that guarantee their salary regardless of whether or not they get optioned down (assuming the player has options)?

Some do, but most in those situations have split contracts. It's not at all uncommon to see guys earning half of their major league pay. It's becoming more common for teams to do this, but it's still the exception.

EDIT: Actually, in the case of post-arbitration guys, the MLB CBA guarantees that guys with 5+ years of service have protection of their salary--meaning they would earn the money in their contract no matter what.