Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 19 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 280

Thread: Yasmani Grandal

  1. #61
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    If they draft a white English speaking catcher is that because of Bailey and Leake?
    If I recall wasn't part of the reason for trading for Ramon in the 1st place was to better communicate with the young spanish speaking pitchers? How many games has 3rd string catcher Wilkin Castillo caught Chapman, how many times has the starting catcher Corky Miller caught him? Castillo barely even got to catch last season and now he is Aroldis' personal caddy, because he speaks spanish. Oh no that has nothing to do with it.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    I'm going to jump to conclusions and assume that the plan is to have Chapman, Cueto and Volquez speak English well enough that a baseball conversation at the mound will not be a problem. Actualy, Cueto and Volquez are already there, don't know about Chapman, but just in general life terms, it would be a shame if the Reds weren't getting Chapman help in speaking English well. Its not like he can return home anytime soon, so he better have a decent enough handle on English. It is certainly a plus that Grandal speaks spanish, but I shouldn't make all that much of a difference when selecting a 1st round draft pick. If they passed on somebody with better baseball skills to take a catcher b/c he speaks "cuban" then that is a poor plan. I bet if I walked to the mound in the middle of a game and said fastball to Chapman, he would know what I was talking about. Frame the glove where you want him to throw it, and he'll know where to aim.

    Heck, for all we know, Mes may speak passable spanish, or at least enough to handle a baseball conversation on the mound. Go back to the start of last season, and the Catching spot may have been considered the weakest link in the organization. Flashforward to today, and you feel pretty good about Hanigan, love the development of Mes the last season +, are excited about the potential in Soto and pick up the top college catcher in the draft. You go from a weak link, to having a lot of potential at the position in 18 months.
    Of course it would be a poor plan which is why people refuse to believe it had anything to do with it. The fact is at least according to various pieces of information all over this site they did pass on better guys OR they aren't that hot at judging talent. Well we know they aren't completely devoid of the latter they have done a fair job of judging solid guys. I guess the other explanation is those reports we get have no merit, ok fine let's just go with that one so we feel better now and put off our disappointment for later. If his bat is as advertised by some evaluators he won't make it to the bigs and/or stick for very long ala Brandon Larson, high risk move. If his arm is as advertised by some he will have a fair disadvantage on defense as well. We know he is a below average runner and doesn't move like a cat behind the plate. So why are you drafting this guy with such risk and with such a low ceiling in the 1st round? At best he sounds like a David Ross type with a lesser arm. I just think it is a poor selection and I am just as entitled to feel that way as anyone is to feel like he is a good selection. The reports we have back up my argument and it's the cuban connection that give some rationale for the pick.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #63
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,464

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    I am very curious about the idea that he is sub-par behind the plate. Every scouting report I've read pre-draft ranks him as one of the elite defensive catchers in college baseball--including a strong throwing arm and great reflexes. The only real question defensively is his pop time. Having watched him play, I have to agree on all counts. Why the sudden thought that his defense is sub-par?

  5. #64
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,483

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    I think that the reasoning for the pick is quite simple. Catcher is a difficult position to fill. Catchers have a lot of value, especially if they can hit. And more so if they switch hit. Reds do have Mesoraco but have been thin at catcher in the organization.

    I think that's probably the reasoning - Grandal's value is high because he plays a premium position on the field. Now let's sign him.

  6. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,837

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Of course it would be a poor plan which is why people refuse to believe it had anything to do with it. The fact is at least according to various pieces of information all over this site they did pass on better guys OR they aren't that hot at judging talent. Well we know they aren't completely devoid of the latter they have done a fair job of judging solid guys. I guess the other explanation is those reports we get have no merit, ok fine let's just go with that one so we feel better now and put off our disappointment for later. If his bat is as advertised by some evaluators he won't make it to the bigs and/or stick for very long ala Brandon Larson, high risk move. If his arm is as advertised by some he will have a fair disadvantage on defense as well. We know he is a below average runner and doesn't move like a cat behind the plate. So why are you drafting this guy with such risk and with such a low ceiling in the 1st round? At best he sounds like a David Ross type with a lesser arm. I just think it is a poor selection and I am just as entitled to feel that way as anyone is to feel like he is a good selection. The reports we have back up my argument and it's the cuban connection that give some rationale for the pick.
    I'm sorry MR, but I think you are completely off the mark here.

    The Royals wanted him at 4, and the Indians wanted him at 5. It was only because they didn't like how he handled predraft negotiations that both of these teams passed on him, at least, according to ALL published reports.

    BA, Keith Law, Frankie Pilerre, and just about every other scouting website had him ranked as the best catcher available and a top 20 player overall. So all of your talk about his sub-par scouting report is simply exaggeration at best and nonsense at worst. The fact that he speaks Spanish could be a hidden bonus, but he is no less than the 3rd Reds 1st round pick out of the last 11 years to be from Miami and of Cuban descent. The other two were drafted long before anyone had ever heard of Aroldis Chapman.

    Besides, so what if Mesoraco or Hanigan catches Bailey and Leake (and Wood/Maloney/LeCure if/when they pitch) while Grandal ends up catching Cueto, Volquez, and Chapman?
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #66
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,837

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    From notorious Reds hater Keith Law's column today, by way of MLBTR:

    Law felt that the Reds took the best player available at #12 in college catcher Yasmani Grandal, and having strong catching depth in the system will not be a bad thing.
    Go BLUE!!!

  8. #67
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I'm sorry MR, but I think you are completely off the mark here.

    The Royals wanted him at 4, and the Indians wanted him at 5. It was only because they didn't like how he handled predraft negotiations that both of these teams passed on him, at least, according to ALL published reports.

    BA, Keith Law, Frankie Pilerre, and just about every other scouting website had him ranked as the best catcher available and a top 20 player overall. So all of your talk about his sub-par scouting report is simply exaggeration at best and nonsense at worst. The fact that he speaks Spanish could be a hidden bonus, but he is no less than the 3rd Reds 1st round pick out of the last 11 years to be from Miami and of Cuban descent. The other two were drafted long before anyone had ever heard of Aroldis Chapman.

    Besides, so what if Mesoraco or Hanigan catches Bailey and Leake (and Wood/Maloney/LeCure if/when they pitch) while Grandal ends up catching Cueto, Volquez, and Chapman?
    How am I exaggerating? He does have a sup par scouting report. And just because he was ranked so high doesn't make it right to draft him high. I believe in scouting reports if they are done by guys who can be trusted to accurately judge the players. Now it's certainly no gaurantee that the reports I have read on him are accurate but that is all we have to go off of currently. I could be completely off base on the guy, I can admit that now and if need be I will in the future. But I am not gonna just trust he is a good pick because the Reds made it. I am skeptical in part because it's just in my nature I guess thru years of other vast majority of players not being as advertised. SO as I sit and question why the Reds would take a guy who people think may have some potentially large and serious flaws I have to think of any positives he might have and I think he might have more value to the Reds than most with his ability to communicate with a very important some might say critical young player/pitcher. I am not saying his entire value is there to the Reds but I think maybe they gave it more merit than other teams did, considering the circumstances.

    As for other teams liking him well let's just say if it were someone with a better track record than the current KC and Cleveland regimes I might be swayed. Just to put this to rest let's just say I am leaning skeptical of this pick and would have liked someone else (several of them actually) with less downside and more upside. That doesn't mean I think he's a definite bust because again where I heard the negatives could be wrong. Why everyone is up in the air because I think his ability to communicate with Aroldis gave him a little more value to the Reds is a bit mind boggling. And the only reason I am arguing back is because others think it had nothing to do with it, that just doesn't make any sense to me.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  9. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,837

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    How am I exaggerating? He does have a sup par scouting report. And just because he was ranked so high doesn't make it right to draft him high. I believe in scouting reports if they are done by guys who can be trusted to accurately judge the players. Now it's certainly no gaurantee that the reports I have read on him are accurate but that is all we have to go off of currently. I could be completely off base on the guy, I can admit that now and if need be I will in the future. But I am not gonna just trust he is a good pick because the Reds made it. I am skeptical in part because it's just in my nature I guess thru years of other vast majority of players not being as advertised. SO as I sit and question why the Reds would take a guy who people think may have some potentially large and serious flaws I have to think of any positives he might have and I think he might have more value to the Reds than most with his ability to communicate with a very important some might say critical young player/pitcher. I am not saying his entire value is there to the Reds but I think maybe they gave it more merit than other teams did, considering the circumstances.

    As for other teams liking him well let's just say if it were someone with a better track record than the current KC and Cleveland regimes I might be swayed. Just to put this to rest let's just say I am leaning skeptical of this pick and would have liked someone else (several of them actually) with less downside and more upside. That doesn't mean I think he's a definite bust because again where I heard the negatives could be wrong. Why everyone is up in the air because I think his ability to communicate with Aroldis gave him a little more value to the Reds is a bit mind boggling. And the only reason I am arguing back is because others think it had nothing to do with it, that just doesn't make any sense to me.
    FWIW, you also panned the Leake pick last year because you thought the Reds were cheaping out. Not trying to call you out, but I do think you have exhibited a track record for suspecting ulterior motives and not giving the current scouting regime enough credit.
    Go BLUE!!!

  10. #69
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    I am very curious about the idea that he is sub-par behind the plate. Every scouting report I've read pre-draft ranks him as one of the elite defensive catchers in college baseball--including a strong throwing arm and great reflexes. The only real question defensively is his pop time. Having watched him play, I have to agree on all counts. Why the sudden thought that his defense is sub-par?
    I have read concerns that his arm strength is average at best, he is big and not real athletic behind the plate, and his accuracy is average to a tick below. Perhaps you just haven't read them all, and to be fair neither have I so just to be fair to everyone I'll go thru all of them I can find/get to and try to reassess him.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  11. #70
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    FWIW, you also panned the Leake pick last year because you thought the Reds were cheaping out. Not trying to call you out, but I do think you have exhibited a track record for suspecting ulterior motives and not giving the current scouting regime enough credit.
    Absolutely I did and still do really, though to be fair I was much more down on the Boxberger pick than the Leake pick because again they could have made a better pick in my opinion. But I don't think what I have brought up here is an alterior motive and haven't suggested that they drafted Grandal strictly because he can communicate with Aroldis. Apparently that is just what people are skimming thru my post and coming up with. But as I told Reds1869 I'll look over the available scouting reports I have access to and see if I missed something on Grandal.

    As far as the scouting regime I'll give them extra credit (because I have given them credit where/when it's due) when they earn it. Personally I think they are a bit too conservative which is fine but every once in a while I'd like to see them go after a guy with 5 tool talent and develop them.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 06-08-2010 at 11:19 AM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  12. #71
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,837

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Absolutely I did and still do really, though to be fair I was much more down on the Boxberger pick than the Leake pick because again they could have made a better pick in my opinion. But I don't think what I have brought up here is an alterior motive and haven't suggested that they drafted Grandal strictly because he can communicate with Aroldis. Apparently that is just what people are skimming thru my post and coming up with. But as I told Reds1869 I'll look over the available scouting reports I have access to and see if I missed something on Grandal.

    As far as the scouting regime I'll give them extra credit (because I have given them credit where/when it's due) when they earn it. Personally I think they are a bit too conservative which is fine but every once in a while I'd like to see them go after a guy with 5 tool talent and develop them.
    Wait, so you still don't like the Leake pick?

    Again, FWIW, I was with you on Boxberger. I really wanted Tanner Scheppers (and so far, it looks like we were right on that one.) Not to say that the media scouting reports/projections are always correct (they certainly aren't), but they all had both Leake and Grandal projected to go where they did. They had Scheppers ranked much higher than Boxberger, although there were the obvious health questions related to Scheppers.
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #72
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,396

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    I'm not sure about this pick. I usually always lean towards the guys that do this for a living and see a kid countless times. This one though has me kind of baffled.
    I would suggest that centering the ball and driving it is the most important thing a position player does. I don't see how anyone can watch the swing of Grandal and see a player that will drive the baseball. He just looks like he is swinging under water.

    Hopefully it's a mechanical flaw or I"m just wrong.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  14. #73
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Wait, so you still don't like the Leake pick?

    Again, FWIW, I was with you on Boxberger. I really wanted Tanner Scheppers (and so far, it looks like we were right on that one.) Not to say that the media scouting reports/projections are always correct (they certainly aren't), but they all had both Leake and Grandal projected to go where they did. They had Scheppers ranked much higher than Boxberger, although there were the obvious health questions related to Scheppers.
    No I never disliked Leake in fact I thought it was a good pick, just a good safe and cheap pick IMO. Which there is nothing wrong with perse, just preferred others....at the time. Not sure I still do prefer others, get back to me on that one. With Grandal again I don't necc. dislike the pick in fact I like taking catchers with big bats and I really like switch hitting players (though I think he will end up a LHH only if he is smart) and I like the intangibles and polish more than others usually. What I don't like doing is taking a chance on a guy with a flaw that could eventually be a critical one (bat speed) in the 1st round and I just am not a fan of catchers with less than stellar arms, again not 1st round worthy. Grandal in the supp 1st, Grandal in the 2nd I would have been ecstatic about. And I think there were just as safe picks with as much or more upside than him there, so it's really just a issue with not getting the value I thought they could have with the 12th pick in the draft, that's all.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  15. #74
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,092

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    I don't see how anyone can watch the swing of Grandal and see a player that will drive the baseball. He just looks like he is swinging under water.
    There used to be whispers that Votto had a slow bat.

    All I know is that Grandal's numbers in 2010 verge on astronomical, and he's in a strong conference.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  16. #75
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Re: Yasmani Grandal

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruce32 View Post
    Is the thinking that Grandall and Sardinah (sp) will be the future of the position at the MLB level or have the Reds brass given up on the former 1st round pick?
    Dane Sardinah? Wow you are going back about a decade there. He never made it and is now out of baseball I believe. (Or is still in the minors with another organization at best.) Maybe you meant Devin Mesoraco. And yes, I think the team believes Grandal and Mez are the future at the position.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25