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Thread: Quality Starts by our pitchers

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Quality Starts - going 6+ innings and allowing 3 or less earned runs

    Harang - 6 quality starts out of 14 games started or 6/14
    Arroyo - 6 out of 13 starts or 6/13
    Cueto - 6/13
    Bailey - 3/9
    Leake - 10/12
    LeCure - 2/4

    By comparison - St. Louis

    Carpenter - 11/14 - went less than 6 innings one time, and gave up 4 earned runs in two other games.
    Garcia - 10/12 - only because he only went 5 innings twice, but still gave up less than 3 runs. Has not given up more than 2 earned runs in any game yet.
    Wainwright - 12/14 - has not gone less than 6 innings yet this season
    Lohse - 4/9 - on the DL
    Penny - 7/9 - on the DL; had 7 straight quality starts to begin the season.
    Hawksworth - 0/1 - had one start, lasted 4 innings, gave up 6 ER's
    Suppan - 0/1 - had one start, lasted 4 innings, gave up 4 hits and 1 ER


    Cardinals top 3 starters > Reds top 3 starters by alot
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    But we knew for sure that 2 of the Card starters would be that good, the third has been a surprise. Yet with all that great pitching they are 0 games ahead of the Reds. Also add in they have the best hitter in the major leagues right now, a very good secondary hitter and a pretty decent pitching coach/manager and you have to wonder why they are not ahead by more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Quality Starts - going 6+ innings and allowing 3 or less earned runs

    Harang - 6 quality starts out of 14 games started or 6/14
    Arroyo - 6 out of 13 starts or 6/13
    Cueto - 6/13
    Bailey - 3/9
    Leake - 10/12
    LeCure - 2/4

    By comparison - St. Louis

    Carpenter - 11/14 - went less than 6 innings one time, and gave up 4 earned runs in two other games.
    Garcia - 10/12 - only because he only went 5 innings twice, but still gave up less than 3 runs. Has not given up more than 2 earned runs in any game yet.
    Wainwright - 12/14 - has not gone less than 6 innings yet this season
    Lohse - 4/9 - on the DL
    Penny - 7/9 - on the DL; had 7 straight quality starts to begin the season.
    Hawksworth - 0/1 - had one start, lasted 4 innings, gave up 6 ER's
    Suppan - 0/1 - had one start, lasted 4 innings, gave up 4 hits and 1 ER


    Cardinals top 3 starters > Reds top 3 starters by alot

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    I thin we have all known this entire season that the Cardinal rotation is far superior to the Reds. St. Louis should be way up in this division, I didn't realize how bad their offense had been this year. Wow.

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    And, that's if you think an ERA of 4.50 is "quality" (6IP and 3ER), which I don't.

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    And, that's if you think an ERA of 4.50 is "quality" (6IP and 3ER), which I don't.
    I agree. I always thought the three runs was a little generous and 6 innings is more average than quality. It should be somthing like 6IP 2ER or 7IP 3ER. At least to me 6IP 3ER is a average outing and not really worthy of its own stat. Theres my 2 cents.

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    The Quality Start is a stat that was invented by a player agent to prove that his client, who lost a lot of games, still pitched well enough to deserve more money.

    I still like the stat, and not just because the Cards have a lot of them. When a pitcher gets a QS with the minimum required (6IP, 3ER) I don't see it as a bad game despite the 4.50 ERA. The pitcher has still covered 2/3 of the innings load, saving the bullpen some work, and has kept his team in the game.

    And it's important to remember that some QS are better than the minimum.

    For me, the stat is worth more when looked at in aggregate than in detail. V's opening post is a good example of that. You get an immediate sense of which starters are consistently putting up outings of six innings or more.
    Last edited by redhat; 06-16-2010 at 06:36 PM.
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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    This is exactly why I wish we would sell off some of the future for a stud ace now like Oswalt or Lee. Someone that can come in and dominate a game at any time - we have promise in Cueto but absolutely no consistency. I'm tired of always being afraid of getting rid of young talent, lets win NOW while we have the chance for once...pleeeeaase. Add a top notch starter and send one of the current to middle relief and lets see what happens.

    Bailey & Stubbs for Oswalt?

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Is Oswalt really an ace anymore, I ask seriously, but seems like he has started going downhill. I could be wrong, haven't paid any attention to him lately. I think he has been such a reds killer we tend to think of him as more then he may be at this point in his career?
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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    I have watched Oswalt a number of times this year and he is pitching well. Much better than the last couple of seasons. His Hits/9 is the lowest of his career and his K/9 is second only to his rookie season. He works fast and he throws strikes. He has taken the ball 14 times and delivered 12 quality starts. That says Ace to me. Maybe that rubs off on the Reds staff. That being said, he is still due a ton of money on the remainder of his contract.
    Last edited by texasdave; 06-17-2010 at 10:59 AM.

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Oswalt so far in 2010 on a BAD Houston team:

    quality starts by the way, 12 out of 14 and keep in mind he doesnt make that much more than our friend Harang (i think only one million more which is nothing) - we are going to dump his and maybe Arroyo salary for next year so why not take a shot now!!? anyway, the stats in 2010 for Oswalt

    5-8 3.12 era 92 inn 89 k's 24 bb's

    this is a real ace, something we dont have close to right now...

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Quote Originally Posted by mivers176 View Post
    Oswalt so far in 2010 on a BAD Houston team:

    quality starts by the way, 12 out of 14 and keep in mind he doesnt make that much more than our friend Harang (i think only one million more which is nothing) - we are going to dump his and maybe Arroyo salary for next year so why not take a shot now!!? anyway, the stats in 2010 for Oswalt

    5-8 3.12 era 92 inn 89 k's 24 bb's

    this is a real ace, something we dont have close to right now...
    Have Rolen talk him into reworking his contract down to $7M per year, then I'll think about it.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Wow, ok, thanks for the info guys, I had it in my head he was on a downward spiral in his career, btu guess I was wrong!
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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Quality Start is a good stat to show if your pitcher has kept his team in the game or not. Despite what others want to say, it is a good base judge of how your starting staff is doing.
    "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." Stephen Hawking

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    Quote Originally Posted by redlegz View Post
    Quality Start is a good stat to show if your pitcher has kept his team in the game or not. Despite what others want to say, it is a good base judge of how your starting staff is doing.
    It's a poor judge of how your pitcher is doing. It's something just recently invented to make excuses for all of the crappy outings by mediocre pitchers who can't throw the ball a mere 7 innings because they're too stupid to pitch effectively.

    There's nothing quality about a pitcher only going a measly 6 innings while giving up 3 Earned Runs (never mind any unearned runs, which he's also responsible for because he either put that guy on base with a hit or a walk, or he failed to keep him from scoring by allowing a scoring at-bat).

    Since the average team scores less than 4.50 runs per game, how can anyone call an ERA of 4.50 (6IP and 3 ER) "Quality"? You can call it "Average" if you want, but not "Quality".

    7 Innings pitched while giving up 2 Earned Runs. That's a quality start. Even 7 Innings pitched while giving up 3 Runs, earned or not, I'll go as far as to say is a quality start.

    But, if you can't even go 7 innings and you've still given up 3 Runs, you've put too much pressure on your bullpen (It's likely 3 guys or more get used up because you couldn't pitch effectively.). Every game pitched like this deteriorates the bullpen. Most of the REDS' games, Harang as guilty as any of them, have been like this and as a result, Masset and Cordero have been overused with Masset and Cordero feeling the effects. While the rest of the bullpen has been asked to do more than it was capable of doing.

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    Re: Quality Starts by our pitchers

    "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." Stephen Hawking


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