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Thread: 2010 UC Football

  1. #76
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'll grant you that Lane Kiffin is an anomaly, and Tennessee has a number of structural advantages over 80% of the colleges, but ask a random sampling of Football fans today, and I'd venture to guess most people wouldn't even rank Tennessee in the top 15 of "destination programs."
    I agree with all of that. Who ever said Tennessee was a top 15 destination program as of 2010? Where did you get that number?

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Off the top of my head...

    College football:
    USC
    Ohio State
    Texas
    Notre Dame
    Florida
    Alabama
    I would also make mention of

    PSU
    Oklahoma
    LSU
    Michigan

    I would mention that just because you are a "final destination" job doesn't mean that is likely the coaches "dream job". For example your Alma Matter may have more of a draw than a "final destination" job. A couple of years ago I could have seen Les Miles leaving LSU for UM. It isn't saying that LSU isn't a great job, just that UM had more allure to Miles.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree with all of that. Who ever said Tennessee was a top 15 destination program as of 2010? Where did you get that number?
    Tennessee has a huge advantage over almost every other football program in the nation. Their 100,000+ stadium that is sold out every season generates a tremendous amount of revenue for the football program.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree with all of that. Who ever said Tennessee was a top 15 destination program as of 2010? Where did you get that number?
    My overall point is there isn't a whole lot of difference between Tennessee and UC. They both would lose coaches to higher level programs.

    Backing up what WMR said, there are maybe 10 programs that wouldn't have to worry about losing a coach to a better program. The next 30-40 all live in the same bubble. UC probably wouldn't lose another coach to a program the caliber of UT for instance, but every one in that 30 team bubble is likely to lose a coach if one of the top 10 programs came calling.

    If Butch Jones has success(and I think he will) he'll be attractive to somebody in the top 10. If he stays, great. If he goes, then UC has to get another coach. The difference between UC and UT is that if UC hires Lane Kiffen, they're probably falling off the pedestal.

    UC's been fortunate(and smart) in their coach hiring over the past 4-5 coaches but if they make one mistake it can really set the program back a ways.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    My overall point is there isn't a whole lot of difference between Tennessee and UC. They both would lose coaches to higher level programs.

    Backing up what WMR said, there are maybe 10 programs that wouldn't have to worry about losing a coach to a better program. The next 30-40 all live in the same bubble. UC probably wouldn't lose another coach to a program the caliber of UT for instance, but every one in that 30 team bubble is likely to lose a coach if one of the top 10 programs came calling.

    If Butch Jones has success(and I think he will) he'll be attractive to somebody in the top 10. If he stays, great. If he goes, then UC has to get another coach. The difference between UC and UT is that if UC hires Lane Kiffen, they're probably falling off the pedestal.

    UC's been fortunate(and smart) in their coach hiring over the past 4-5 coaches but if they make one mistake it can really set the program back a ways.
    OK, this is where I clearly disagree with you. Tennessee has much to allure a coach that UC doesn't. I'm surprised you didn't know these but I'll spell them out for you:

    1) Playing in the SEC
    2) Filling a 100K seat stadium every week
    3) Money. Fulmer made much more jack than UC could ever afford to give a coach
    4) Recruiting. UT is always above UC in the recruiting rankings

    I could throw in a few minor ones like crime rates in Clifton compared to Knoxville or the beauty of the Smokies but I think I've made my case.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    UC probably wouldn't lose another coach to a program the caliber of UT for instance, but every one in that 30 team bubble is likely to lose a coach if one of the top 10 programs came calling.
    You're kidding yourself. UT's football budget is at least 2-3 times (revenues are 43M compared to 11M) that of UC's and the facilities are far better. While UT isn't a "destination" school it can still pay a coach twice as much as UC and provide more resources. In the end, the money and prestige usually are what matter most.
    Last edited by joshnky; 07-29-2010 at 03:12 PM.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    OK, this is where I clearly disagree with you. Tennessee has much to allure a coach that UC doesn't. I'm surprised you didn't know these but I'll spell them out for you:

    1) Playing in the SEC
    2) Filling a 100K seat stadium every week
    3) Money. Fulmer made much more jack than UC could ever afford to give a coach
    4) Recruiting. UT is always above UC in the recruiting rankings

    I could throw in a few minor ones like crime rates in Clifton compared to Knoxville or the beauty of the Smokies but I think I've made my case.
    Those are all true. There's a lot of great things about coaching at UT, I just think that right now the program is not a clear step up from UC for a coach to take.

    Though the pay would certainly be higher. But as to the rest, there's a much negative as there is a positive. Playing in the SEC is great, if you like playing in the Citrus Bowl. 100K fans are great, except when they push you out 1 year after you go 10-4. No doubt recruiting at Tennessee is easier than at UC, sometimes you even get the #1 recruit in the nation.

    That all said, the last two hires UT has made were both sort of out of left field which shows that UT may not necessarily have the same cache it once did in luring coaches.

    The main difference and what I was trying to point out is that UT is pretty comfortably ensconced on this level of the College Football pantheon. UC's perhaps there, perhaps not, but is in much more perilous condition and can fall off whatever stage they've acheived fairly easily if one of these coaching hires doesn't work out.
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  9. #83
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Those are all true. There's a lot of great things about coaching at UT, I just think that right now the program is not a clear step up from UC for a coach to take.

    Though the pay would certainly be higher. But as to the rest, there's a much negative as there is a positive. Playing in the SEC is great, if you like playing in the Citrus Bowl. 100K fans are great, except when they push you out 1 year after you go 10-4. No doubt recruiting at Tennessee is easier than at UC, sometimes you even get the #1 recruit in the nation.

    That all said, the last two hires UT has made were both sort of out of left field which shows that UT may not necessarily have the same cache it once did in luring coaches.

    The main difference and what I was trying to point out is that UT is pretty comfortably ensconced on this level of the College Football pantheon. UC's perhaps there, perhaps not, but is in much more perilous condition and can fall off whatever stage they've acheived fairly easily if one of these coaching hires doesn't work out.
    Clearly you've shown that UT has its problems but you haven't made the connection to UC. There's still no comparison. UT isn't going to Mount Pleasant to pluck off coach after coach. Kiffin left them hanging and their choices were very limited but that gets back to the anomaly we all agreed on earlier.

    Where would you rate Mich State's football program? Because they have proven that they're above UC in the pecking order.
    Last edited by Sea Ray; 07-29-2010 at 04:41 PM.

  10. #84
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    I just wonder how Derek Dooley will do in Knoxville. I've been impressed with him from an institutional standpoint and he definitely will be the true "Southern Gentleman" UT was looking for after Kiffin left. I just wonder how that will translate on the field.

    If he does do well, another thing to consider is that if Mark Richt ever finds himself on the hot seat, Dooley's name will be brought up in Athens.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I just wonder how Derek Dooley will do in Knoxville. I've been impressed with him from an institutional standpoint and he definitely will be the true "Southern Gentleman" UT was looking for after Kiffin left. I just wonder how that will translate on the field.

    If he does do well, another thing to consider is that if Mark Richt ever finds himself on the hot seat, Dooley's name will be brought up in Athens.
    Kudos to him if he does do well because he sure came in under bad circumstances. He's surrounded by coaches that are not used to working together. No way he would have gotten the job if UT had a chance to do a full search after the regular season. If he does do well then it will be difficult to keep him from going to Georgia indeed. As a UT fan, you can't worry about that. If he does leave after being successful in Knoxville then VolNation will have many fine candidates to choose from

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Clearly you've shown that UT has its problems but you haven't made the connection to UC. There's still no comparison. UT isn't going to Mount Pleasant to pluck off coach after coach. Kiffin left them hanging and their choices were very limited but that gets back to the anomaly we all agreed on earlier.

    Where would you rate Mich State's football program? Because they have proven that they're above UC in the pecking order.
    That's the thing. I don't think a coach would leave UC for Michigan State anymore.

    In their best year in recent memory, tMSU went to the Capital One Bowl. Do you think Brian Kelly would have left a team which had just gone to two Sugar Bowls for that?

    In all honesty, Tennessee's in a similar position. Sure they can pay more. And they bring in better recruits. And they draw more fans. But at their best are they going to be better than Alabama or Florida? UC may not be either but UC doesn't have to go through either of them to get in a BCS Bowl.

    As I said, I think UC is on the next platform down from the top 10 traditional power programs. I think it's about 30-40 programs which are all about equal footing. This encompasses pretty much everyone in the power conferences who regularly expect to go to a bowl game. Plus a few outside teams like BYU and Utah(for now.)
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Kudos to him if he does do well because he sure came in under bad circumstances. He's surrounded by coaches that are not used to working together. No way he would have gotten the job if UT had a chance to do a full search after the regular season. If he does do well then it will be difficult to keep him from going to Georgia indeed. As a UT fan, you can't worry about that. If he does leave after being successful in Knoxville then VolNation will have many fine candidates to choose from
    Of course the last time they had "many" fine candidates to choose from. They chose Lane Kiffin.

    Just sayin.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    That's the thing. I don't think a coach would leave UC for Michigan State anymore.

    In their best year in recent memory, tMSU went to the Capital One Bowl. Do you think Brian Kelly would have left a team which had just gone to two Sugar Bowls for that?

    In all honesty, Tennessee's in a similar position. Sure they can pay more. And they bring in better recruits. And they draw more fans. But at their best are they going to be better than Alabama or Florida? UC may not be either but UC doesn't have to go through either of them to get in a BCS Bowl.

    As I said, I think UC is on the next platform down from the top 10 traditional power programs. I think it's about 30-40 programs which are all about equal footing. This encompasses pretty much everyone in the power conferences who regularly expect to go to a bowl game. Plus a few outside teams like BYU and Utah(for now.)
    I usually agree with most of what you say.. Not at all on this one. MSU is a Big Ten school with probably a true fan base ten times the size of UC. That's not even mentioning budget and salary.

    UC is one bad year away from being lower than the Fresno States of the world.. Comparing them with Tenn is really really far fetched. Winning a national title is a HUGE accomplishment and Tenn just did that barely ten years ago.

    I also think Brian Kelly in other circumstances would have left for MSU. The difference is he was one of the few guys that was young/exciting enough to aim for the BIG time. Dantonio and others like him never had that exciting brand of offense that gets you big time coaching buzz.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  15. #89
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Of course the last time they had "many" fine candidates to choose from. They chose Lane Kiffin.

    Just sayin.
    And what is wrong with that? The last time the #1 program in the nation had many fine candidates to choose from, they chose...Lane Kiffin

    If the top program in the country chose the same coach Tennessee did then what's your point?
    Last edited by Sea Ray; 07-30-2010 at 08:19 AM.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I usually agree with most of what you say.. Not at all on this one. MSU is a Big Ten school with probably a true fan base ten times the size of UC. That's not even mentioning budget and salary.

    UC is one bad year away from being lower than the Fresno States of the world.. Comparing them with Tenn is really really far fetched. Winning a national title is a HUGE accomplishment and Tenn just did that barely ten years ago.

    I also think Brian Kelly in other circumstances would have left for MSU. The difference is he was one of the few guys that was young/exciting enough to aim for the BIG time. Dantonio and others like him never had that exciting brand of offense that gets you big time coaching buzz.
    Cedric gets it. Hoosier, you've got your head so far in the sand I can't dig you out

    It was a mistake to ever enter Tennessee into this conversation


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