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Thread: 2010 UC Football

  1. #106
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeinRed View Post
    If Butch Jones puts together a run like Kelly then UC will be a completely different program than it is at this moment. At that point UC is well on its way to having a much larger program in terms of $. I really don't think keeping a coach at that point will be near the issue as it is now. Not saying Jones wouldn't leave, but its not the money in the bank bet some see it as.
    IMO UC will always be a stepping stone, Nippert is too small and old. There will always be bigger and better options for coaches. You just can't overlook the fact that some schools get 2-2.5x the number of fans at each game. I do think if they stay at this 10+ wins a year level a couple games each year will be played at PBS which would help.

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  3. #107
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by davereds24 View Post
    IMO UC will always be a stepping stone, Nippert is too small and old. There will always be bigger and better options for coaches. You just can't overlook the fact that some schools get 2-2.5x the number of fans at each game. I do think if they stay at this 10+ wins a year level a couple games each year will be played at PBS which would help.
    There is one little exception to this. And it would require an upgrade at Nippert to around 50-60K seats along with luxury boxes. But since UC is in the Big East and has a legit chance to play for national championships they have an advantage on all other "stepping stone" type schools.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    There is one little exception to this. And it would require an upgrade at Nippert to around 50-60K seats along with luxury boxes. But since UC is in the Big East and has a legit chance to play for national championships they have an advantage on all other "stepping stone" type schools.
    This, and UC already has the ball rolling on trying to upgrade Nippert. Its a delicate situation because of the location of Nippert and the school wanting to keep the spirit of Nippert intact. It will be interesting to see what direction they go. Its neat having an on campus stadium with so much character, but they may have no choice but to move from Nippert. They aren't just going to stand pat on what they have though.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeinRed View Post
    This, and UC already has the ball rolling on trying to upgrade Nippert. Its a delicate situation because of the location of Nippert and the school wanting to keep the spirit of Nippert intact. It will be interesting to see what direction they go. Its neat having an on campus stadium with so much character, but they may have no choice but to move from Nippert. They aren't just going to stand pat on what they have though.
    It's a big problem with no easy solutions because Nippert is so closely surrounded by either brand new or historic buildings. The architectural study they just did recommended a solution that would only add 3,000 seats but would add the club seats and luxury suites to drive revenue. Pumping $150M+ into that isn't an attractive option. UC was really myopic by building the varsity village building between Nippert and the Shoe. This probably cost them an additional 10K seats at half the cost. Oops.

    Moving games to Paul Brown is only slightly more attractive since it pumps money directly into SoP's bank account (that lease deal with the county is highway robbery). Plus, he views UC as a threat to his all mighty dollar, so his facility rental terms aren't kind (although not nearly as bad as originally reported). And there's something to be said to having games on campus.

    The only land that could maybe be an option to build a new stadium is about a 220m by 180m and would require demolition of the majority of Sigma Sigma, the alumni and faculty center (only half used), and part of French Hall. For comparison, Nippert's footprint is about 160 x 160m. Any nearby off-campus land is either too expensive or simply unavailable (EPA and Burnet Woods).

    The best option in the meantime might be to have one or two games at Paul Brown each year.
    Last edited by paintmered; 08-06-2010 at 11:47 AM.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SeeinRed View Post
    On a much rosier note, here is a sneak peek at the Football Opening for 2010 to get everyone fired up for the season.
    Here's what Mike Waddell had to say about the teaser trailer over on Bearcat News:

    This is the first of two videos that play in our pregame format;

    the TAKE THE FIELD video plays at the 6 minute mark and sets a tone for the team to take the field - this year's version is longer than past intros, and yes, this is the first 20 seconds. But remember, as with a drum roll, you do not start out at 500 beats per minute... you work up to the speed. This piece paints a picture of the program through the years and ends with some intensely edited clips and matching music. The head coach watched a rough edit on Thursday and said it gave him chills... I think all will be very pleased with the end deliverable as it is our best work to date.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    The video presentation at Nippert has infinitely improved over the last few years. I upgraded my seats from the Lair to the southern endzone so I'll actually be able to see the video board now.

    I'm looking forward to it.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Apparently Butch Jones said this morning on ESPN that UC has sold 22,000 season tickets and sold out their entire home schedule.
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  9. #113
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    It's a big problem with no easy solutions because Nippert is so closely surrounded by either brand new or historic buildings. The architectural study they just did recommended a solution that would only add 3,000 seats but would add the club seats and luxury suites to drive revenue. Pumping $150M+ into that isn't an attractive option. UC was really myopic by building the varsity village building between Nippert and the Shoe. This probably cost them an additional 10K seats at half the cost. Oops.
    Exactly. Nippert could be a great and unique stadium. It is a great stadium to watch football in but its just too small if you want to build a top notch program. UC is in a predicament because if they want to build their football program they need $. Varsity village has strapped the athletic department and they are in need of funds. I don't want to see Nippert move from its current location but I have heard Barnett Woods (the park just off MLK) could be location for a new stadium.

    Moving games to Paul Brown is only slightly more attractive since it pumps money directly into SoP's bank account (that lease deal with the county is highway robbery). Plus, he views UC as a threat to his all mighty dollar, so his facility rental terms aren't kind (although not nearly as bad as originally reported). And there's something to be said to having games on campus.

    The best option in the meantime might be to have one or two games at Paul Brown each year.
    I hate the idea of playing more than one game a year at PBS. College football games are made to be played in college football stadiums with college atmospheres. There is such a drastic difference between a college gameday experience and a pro football experience. PBS has a much higher capacity but UC loses some atmosphere if they play too many games there.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Exactly. Nippert could be a great and unique stadium. It is a great stadium to watch football in but its just too small if you want to build a top notch program. UC is in a predicament because if they want to build their football program they need $. Varsity village has strapped the athletic department and they are in need of funds. I don't want to see Nippert move from its current location but I have heard Barnett Woods (the park just off MLK) could be location for a new stadium.



    I hate the idea of playing more than one game a year at PBS. College football games are made to be played in college football stadiums with college atmospheres. There is such a drastic difference between a college gameday experience and a pro football experience. PBS has a much higher capacity but UC loses some atmosphere if they play too many games there.
    It's Burnet woods. And it's not going to be there. The athletic department doesn't have the money to even think about building a brand new stadium right now.

    UC has to fix their basketball program before they even thinking about getting out of the red. No matter how they slice it they are in major budget crisis mode. One bad year from the football program and it's even worse than they thought.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    So I'm probably going to UC in the fall and I was on campus the other day, and I saw Nippert.

    The talk of uprgading it is interesting to me because it's basically a hole in the center of campus with seats. But to me, it was one of the most beautiful football stadiums I've ever seen. I loved it, the way it was surrounded by the building and fit into the rest of the campus so well. Maybes its to small to be the stadium for a hugetime college football team, maybe its possible it could be upgraded to that size and maybe it isnt. But, two points...

    Building a big brand new stadium near campus, on campus (probably impossible, and very unlikely) or somewhere else in the city is far from a sure thing in making the program a permanent big time fixture. Recruiting is what drives success in college football, if you can recruit, you can win. And recruits aren't that necessarily obsessed with the size of a stadium. If they were, they already wouldnt be going to UC, they'd be going to UK, Louisville, Indiana U, Marshall, Illinois, just to name a few schools in the area. Many of these schools can claim a better tradition in football than UC, but are held back for some reason or other.

    Playing the games in Paul Brown is a terrible idea as well. I went to a school that plays their games in a pro stadium, Tulane University. Tulane used to have a stadium around the same size as Nippert. Moving to that facility has not given them the success and prestige at football they thought it would back in the 70s. And don't think Tulane couldn't have a good football team, they have an excellent location (New Orleans), to recruit from and to. They have good academics, but not so good that they can't let plenty of guys in who wouldn't be going to college without football, and they have the money. Tulane even shells out money for coaches, they're just stupid and can't figure out that they'd be better off in their own facility and give they're players terrible accomodations. The players live above me in the same dorm I did, which was the worst dorm on campus. So either their dumb or they no longer care.

    Point is, the facility where the team plays does not the program make. UC is probably better off adding about 3-5 thousand seats to Nippert, with a few boxes, which could probably be done and salvage the integrity of the stadium and the campus.
    Last edited by zjr1717; 08-07-2010 at 01:55 AM.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Also, I should add that the biggest thing that really is going to hold back UC's football now and in the future, is the conference their in. The Big East is an extremely weak conference that seems to have little interest in being a true big time college football conference. If they were interested in this, they would add 3 or 4 teams and become a 2 division conference. Teams like UCF, Marshall, UAB, and FAU all either are or have the potential to be solid football schools. The conference did this well before when it added USF, taking a school that might not be quite ready for primetime and helping it grow. They also need to make an attempt to raid the ACC for SOMEBODY, or consider adding an east coast D-1AA powerhouse.

    Most likely though, the Big East died forever as a real football conference when it lost both VT and Miami. They seem to have resigned themselves to being the basketball superconference, and are currently more interested in that.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zjr1717 View Post
    Also, I should add that the biggest thing that really is going to hold back UC's football now and in the future, is the conference their in. The Big East is an extremely weak conference that seems to have little interest in being a true big time college football conference. If they were interested in this, they would add 3 or 4 teams and become a 2 division conference. Teams like UCF, Marshall, UAB, and FAU all either are or have the potential to be solid football schools. The conference did this well before when it added USF, taking a school that might not be quite ready for primetime and helping it grow. They also need to make an attempt to raid the ACC for SOMEBODY, or consider adding an east coast D-1AA powerhouse.

    Most likely though, the Big East died forever as a real football conference when it lost both VT and Miami. They seem to have resigned themselves to being the basketball superconference, and are currently more interested in that.
    Kind of long just a warning.

    The teams you mention would be laughed upon by the rest of the BcS and would probably LOWER not raise big east revenue and prestige. Marshall doesn't have the facilities or the football stadium to be taken seriously, they also add a very very miniscule # of tv sets not already "included" by WVU, UC, and Louisville.

    UCF is the only one that arguably add anything in terms of tv sets... granted no one in Orlando cares. Probably on the short list for big east expansion if needed (IE someone leaves).

    FA Who? Are they even D1? Oh ya Howard Schellenburger the guy that built the U. They got Crushed by Nebraska and So. Carolina, they wouldnt even be on the list of schools for Conference USA let alone should they be anywhere on the Big East Radar. If they are the Big East is even more incompetant than even the most cynicle fan believes.

    UAB I dont know enough to say. They have a decent history considering theyve only had football for 15 years. Dont think they'd be real happy in the Big East considering that USF would be the ONLY reletively close opponent.

    None of these schools shock you into believing that the Big East is SERIOUS about football. Most of them would be on the C-List of teams that really don't add anything but another mouth to feed. If the Big East wanted to be taken seriously here are the names they should be looking at... ECU (traditionally a strong program with football, recently invested into upgrades all around. Great Fan Travel support which is HUGE at keeping bowl bids. A tradition of Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime willing to take the tough road to get respect. Downside: Crowded NCAA area (they would be a 5th BCS team in No Carolina), They are more of a regional draw than a national name. Would be a popular team with ESPN TV (they almost always get regional games).

    After that I look west. Well actually North as in the Big 12 North. Kansas and KSU would be a package deal both bring really solid traditions moreso on the basketball side. Both have been on the national radar in recent years. The marketability of the KU and KSU lines help give the Big East name recognition while many of our historical marquee programs are going through a rough spot (Pitt still has Wanny for a coach, UC has a lot of change coming in at key spots, WVU has the NCAA sniffing around, Syracuse is dreadful)

    Missouri would be the name that everyone knows but really not sure how or why. Another that is living more off of past accomplishments than anything theyve done recently. Would bring St. Louis and maybe Kansas City to the table.

    You contact the Big 12 North and just tell em same money and equal control and they would BOLT from Texasland just like Nebraska did.

    Memphis (and I want to preference this with... If its true about the Fed Ex $$) Play in a very nice stadium (Liberty Bowl), lots of ties to the Liberty bowl, hasnt seen that much success in football. They would probably add more value to the basketball side.

    The Big East is NOT In a position to solely poach any ACC team. I mean even BC, as unhappy as they are, is making more money than what the current tv contract gives to Big East schools. We would need someone else like the Big 10 to start sniffing around Maryland, Virginia, or Ga. Tech to be able to maybe get Va Tech or BC to listen. And they are the ONLY ones who would listen.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Kind of long just a warning.
    I understand some of your arguments, and were kind of on the same page, and I admit I did my "research" on schools hastily, but...

    UCF is an excellent choice, its in Florida, in a huge market, and in Florida you can get tv sets and players. They're also already good at football.

    FAU is in Florida, and as you said, has a good coach. Those two things alone make it a decent choice

    Marshall is a fine choice, decent market (Huntington MSA has 300,00 people), and a school with good tradition in football. They have a faithful fanbase, and also, the stadium is bigger and nicer than Nippert, for example, I've been there. It could also easily be made much larger.

    ECU is definitely a school to look at, but I don't think it even compares to UCF and Marshall.

    Kansas, K State, Missouri, and Memphis are to far west IMO, and even if you got all 4 of them, they still would have to play at least a couple games against teams in the northeast, and travel to play said teams, which they probably won't want to do.

    On Maryland and BC, I think they could be poached from the ACC, better fit for them geographically, and as you said BC is unhappy, as well as the fact they're solid basketball teams would get to be part of the strongest basketball conference. Va Tech might also be poachable, but I think its less likely than those 2.

    Also, The Big East is already a laughing stock, its moves might have to be a tad desperate.
    Last edited by zjr1717; 08-07-2010 at 02:55 AM.

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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Kind of long just a warning.
    If the Big East wanted to be taken seriously here are the names they should be looking at... ECU (traditionally a strong program with football, recently invested into upgrades all around. Great Fan Travel support which is HUGE at keeping bowl bids. A tradition of Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime willing to take the tough road to get respect. Downside: Crowded NCAA area (they would be a 5th BCS team in No Carolina), They are more of a regional draw than a national name. Would be a popular team with ESPN TV (they almost always get regional games).

    After that I look west. Well actually North as in the Big 12 North. Kansas and KSU would be a package deal both bring really solid traditions moreso on the basketball side. Both have been on the national radar in recent years. The marketability of the KU and KSU lines help give the Big East name recognition while many of our historical marquee programs are going through a rough spot (Pitt still has Wanny for a coach, UC has a lot of change coming in at key spots, WVU has the NCAA sniffing around, Syracuse is dreadful)

    Missouri would be the name that everyone knows but really not sure how or why. Another that is living more off of past accomplishments than anything theyve done recently. Would bring St. Louis and maybe Kansas City to the table.

    You contact the Big 12 North and just tell em same money and equal control and they would BOLT from Texasland just like Nebraska did.

    Memphis (and I want to preference this with... If its true about the Fed Ex $$) Play in a very nice stadium (Liberty Bowl), lots of ties to the Liberty bowl, hasnt seen that much success in football. They would probably add more value to the basketball side.
    The real problem I see with ECU, at least in the short term is that they're better than their national reputation. Guaranteeing that you have to go to East Carolina every other year(which is apparantly a witch to win in) and if you win you get little recognition and if you lose, you lost to a team that's lucky to be in the Big East. At least that's the perception I'd fear. I like the idea of moving West with Missouri, Iowa State, Kansas and Kansas St. Those four schools all have some national recognition, and are probably easier places to win than Greenville.
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    Re: 2010 UC Football Official Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zjr1717 View Post
    I understand some of your arguments, and were kind of on the same page, and I admit I did my "research" on schools hastily, but...

    UCF is an excellent choice, its in Florida, in a huge market, and in Florida you can get tv sets and players. They're also already good at football.

    FAU is in Florida, and as you said, has a good coach. Those two things alone make it a decent choice

    Marshall is a fine choice, decent market (Huntington MSA has 300,00 people), and a school with good tradition in football. They have a faithful fanbase, and also, the stadium is bigger and nicer than Nippert, for example, I've been there. It could also easily be made much larger.

    ECU is definitely a school to look at, but I don't think it even compares to UCF and Marshall.

    Kansas, K State, Missouri, and Memphis are to far west IMO, and even if you got all 4 of them, they still would have to play at least a couple games against teams in the northeast, and travel to play said teams, which they probably won't want to do.

    On Maryland and BC, I think they could be poached from the ACC, better fit for them geographically, and as you said BC is unhappy, as well as the fact they're solid basketball teams would get to be part of the strongest basketball conference. Va Tech might also be poachable, but I think its less likely than those 2.

    Also, The Big East is already a laughing stock, its moves might have to be a tad desperate.
    $$$$, TV, and Football is driving all the talk of expansion and right now the ACC has more of the first two than the Big East. Maryland also isn't going to give up the research money or prestige they get for being with the ACC (whom next to the big 10 and ivy league I believe have the largest research donations) and all their traditional rivals unless they feel the ACC is no longer in the stable position for football. Hence why it would almost have to be a 2-pronged attack for the big east to get anyone and in such Maryland would likely end up with the Big 10+ infinity.

    On UCF, I just doubt that they would really add that much more than USF already does. I may just be thinking too much of a whats the point of tvs if they arent tuned in. Plus outside of USF who is that a reasonible trip for?

    Marshall has a nice story and tradition but most of those tvs would watch WVU, UC, or Louisville anyways. They dont have the infrastructure or the money to invest in upgrading their program to BcS levels. They are probably about where they should be CUSA/MAC similar budgets of schools in competition with Marshall. East Carolina has the donor money to invest that Marshall lacks.

    FAU would be looked at as a joke of an addition. They would immediately replace Syracuse as bottom tier rung in football. They are a school people bring in for homecoming game because they know that they can put up 30 in the first half and call it a day. Having a coach only goes so far. I dont know how good any of their facilities are.
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