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Thread: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Nice article by Michael Grant in the Louisville Courier-Journal:

    "I think I'm ready to play in the big leagues," he said through Bats trainer/interpreter Tomas Vera. "I just have to wait for them to give me the opportunity. I'm a patient person."
    "He's learning a lot," said Power, a former major leaguer. "If you go out there and try and throw 102 mph because you can, you're going to wear yourself down pretty fast. ... His command is getting much better. His understanding of pitching in certain situations is getting much better."
    Edinson Volquez, the Cincinnati Reds ace who is rehabbing with the Bats, has been imparting some veteran wisdom.

    "He needs to prepare more before the game," he said. "He's got great stuff. He's still young. He has to attack the zone and be aggressive, because he has a good fastball. He can do whatever he wants."

    Chapman is paying attention.

    "I'm a person that listens a lot," he said. "Whenever someone gives me good advice, I listen."
    http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...f+for+the+Reds
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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    I like the fact that Volquez called him out on preparation. If ANY one pitcher knows, it's him. Lack of preparation cost Volquez at least a year or two in the Majors...
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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Personally, I think it's a mistake to put Chapman in the pen. His tendency to be wild at times is a bad thing to have show up if he's called upon to put out a fire. I know it's to fill an immediate need but I just don't think he's the right guy for the job. He may do very well 4 out of 5 innings but then blow up for 3-4 runs in the 5th one.

    Bottom line is that he needs more time to develop in whatever role he is in.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Personally, I think it's a mistake to put Chapman in the pen. His tendency to be wild at times is a bad thing to have show up if he's called upon to put out a fire. I know it's to fill an immediate need but I just don't think he's the right guy for the job. He may do very well 4 out of 5 innings but then blow up for 3-4 runs in the 5th one.

    Bottom line is that he needs more time to develop in whatever role he is in.
    Agree. I've been pounding on the health standpoint and that I think he needs 150 IP in 2010 to be ready for 2011, but additionally, by taking him out of the rotation now, he won't get much chance to improve his secondary stuff.

    I'm not a fan of young highly regarded pitchers in winter ball unless they are making up lost time from an injury, but if the Reds call-up Chapman soon and he ends up with around a combined total of 100 IP or so, I hope he goes down and gets 6 or 7 starts in winter ball where he has to work his way through a line-up 3 times. I also hope its early in the winter ball season and he can be shut down around Christmas for a month or so.
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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    perhaps the plan is to get him the Mike Leake treatment, allow him to get about 140ish innings this season (similar to Leake last year at ASU), then increase it to 170ish next year, then go from there?

    How do you get him 140ish innings? Perhaps at some point they plan to cut Leake back to a 5 inning pitcher, and will allow Chapman to pick up 2-3 innings from there depending on the game conditions and where the Reds fall in the penant race. Pick up some additional innings in winter ball as stated, and gear up for next year.

    The Reds biggest weakness this season as been the bullpen. Kudos for them for changing courses on their "current" plan in an attempt to win now. There are many theories of pitchers getting hurt when getting overworked. I've yet to read about someone getting hurt from being under-worked. If Chapman can help in the Bullpen this year, and they remain in a playoff chase, then work him into the bullpen this season and figure out next season, next season.

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    perhaps the plan is to get him the Mike Leake treatment, allow him to get about 140ish innings this season (similar to Leake last year at ASU), then increase it to 170ish next year, then go from there?

    How do you get him 140ish innings? Perhaps at some point they plan to cut Leake back to a 5 inning pitcher, and will allow Chapman to pick up 2-3 innings from there depending on the game conditions and where the Reds fall in the penant race. Pick up some additional innings in winter ball as stated, and gear up for next year.

    The Reds biggest weakness this season as been the bullpen. Kudos for them for changing courses on their "current" plan in an attempt to win now. There are many theories of pitchers getting hurt when getting overworked. I've yet to read about someone getting hurt from being under-worked. If Chapman can help in the Bullpen this year, and they remain in a playoff chase, then work him into the bullpen this season and figure out next season, next season.

    Underworked in 2010 means overworked in 2011. Innings need to be built from year to year when a kid is that young. If Chapman was 26 or 27 it would be different.
    Last edited by mth123; 06-28-2010 at 03:02 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Perfect for the bullpen. The main reason Chapman is walking so many batters is because of how management has made him work on his secondary pitches.

    He will be fine.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    I am fine with having him help out the Reds in the pen, but why begin this process now? I'd like him to keep pitching on regular rest in the rotation through July and into August before beginning this process.

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I am fine with having him help out the Reds in the pen, but why begin this process now? I'd like him to keep pitching on regular rest in the rotation through July and into August before beginning this process.
    Agreed. The Reds have a lot of other guys right now and IMO getting Chapman's innings in is more important.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Underworked in 2010 means overworked in 2011. Innings need to be built from year to year when a kid is that young. If Chapman was 26 or 27 it would be different.
    No, overworked in 2011 only means overworked if he actually gets overworked in 2011. There is nothing that says they have to have Chapman throw 150+ innings next season. They can choose to treat him w/ kid gloves again next year, if it means he can help them win the division out of the Pen this season.

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    No, overworked in 2011 only means overworked if he actually gets overworked in 2011. There is nothing that says they have to have Chapman throw 150+ innings next season. They can choose to treat him w/ kid gloves again next year, if it means he can help them win the division out of the Pen this season.
    So say he throws 100 innings in 2010, then how many would he throw in 2011? 130? If so, that makes him a swing man who gets 12 starts or so and the rest of the year in the pen. More than that risks injury IMO. Meanwhile, a year of service is burnt. I'm hoping he can be a 180 IP guy who can hold down a rotation spot in 2011. The Reds need him to be that more than they need an extra month of him in the pen at the major league level this year. I'd rather the Reds let him start at AAA in 2010 until August or so to allow him to get his innings in. The Reds have a number of pitchers who will be pushing for time soon. Bray recently, Volquez soon. Bailey maybe. Lincoln maybe. Wood, Maloney etc. The Reds need a solid late inning guy and none of those guys look like that guy (including Chapman at this point) and I'd package a couple for one while keeping Chapman on schedule.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Well, I agree that I'd prefer Chapman be a 180 inning rotation worthy starter next year and for many to come. However, if he's the difference b/w winning the division or falling a few games short, and that means you have to treat him w/ kid gloves next year, getting him slowly up to 130-150 innings next season, so he can be extended to 180 the year after, then so be it. There is no garuntee that the Reds win anything in 2011. They have a chance at the playoffs this year, and I wouldn't be shy to use Chapmann in a role that can help you accomplish that goal and figure out next year when next year comes. If he's going to work out of the pen, he probably needs some time to get used to working multiple days in a row, 3 outof 4 days, short warm up periods, etc... He can still work on offspeed stuff and breaking balls out of the pen. Sure he won't get to face the same competition 2-3 times thru a lineup, but he can throw nothing but breaking stuff and changeups on monday for 2 innings, come back on wednesday and throwing nothing but heat and changeup for 2 innings, then come back again on saturday throwing nothing but fastballs and sliders. Obviously, that only works in the minors, but at some point, Leake is going to need his innings cut back, perhaps Chapman can work in tandem for 2 innings while Leake goes 5, then Chapman can pick up another 2-3 innings next 4 days. There's more than 1 way to get Chapman his innings.

    He only burns an option year next year if they hold him back in AAA to develop more as a starter. They'd still control his rights for what, 6 majore league seasons. the first several will be expensive due to his initial contract, the last 2 will be dependent upon his arbitration worth (which hopefully won't be cheap, ie he'll be worth a large arb. price).

    I have no idea how ready he is to help out of the pen, however I do know there has been a lot of stuff thrown at the wall this season out of the pen, and a lot of it hasn't worked. Rhodes has been used way more than I'd like, and Cordero has been used just as much. If Chapman, Massett, Rhodes and Cordero can form a nasty-boys esque back of the pullpen from August thru September, you can turn games into a 6 inning affair, much like the 90 reds. I'm tired of "waiting for next year" Next year may have finally arrived, I'd hate for them to sit around another year because the think "next year is really next year" only to find the wheels fall of of several players and we're looking at another 10 years before we have a winner.

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    The chronology of events may be telling. On June 15 Fay reported WJ's willingness to trade or sign a reliever. I'm guessing that WJ had made some inquiries before revealing that he was looking.

    Around the same time, Jordan Smith is recalled in a move that surprised many.

    Around 20 June, Boxberger relieves in Lynchburg. He pitches well and is advanced to Carolina as a reliever.

    Around 23 June Fay reports that Chapman will move to the bullpen.

    Around the same time Valiquette is advanced to Louisville, even though his performance at Carolina did not seem to merit it.

    I speculate that 1) WJ believes the Reds have a good shot if they address the pen, 2) Inquiries revealed that obtaining a quality bullpen arm would cost far more in talent than the Reds were willing to sacrifice, and 3) that the best course of action was to fill the need from within the organization.

    Toward that end he was getting some of the best arms in the organization ready to audition for the ML bullpen.

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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Personally, I think it's a mistake to put Chapman in the pen. His tendency to be wild at times is a bad thing to have show up if he's called upon to put out a fire. I know it's to fill an immediate need but I just don't think he's the right guy for the job. He may do very well 4 out of 5 innings but then blow up for 3-4 runs in the 5th one.

    Bottom line is that he needs more time to develop in whatever role he is in.
    I couldn't agree more. His lack of control will be even MORE exaggerated in relief appearances. And the increased pressure isn't exactly a plus either.
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    Re: Bats' pitcher Chapman could be a relief for the Reds

    There are many times situations where you have runners on 2nd and 3rd and less than 2 outs. To have a guy like Chapman available would be a real plus. He comes in and throws his 100+ mph fastballs and dares someone to catch up to them. If he walks the first batter, so be it. But, there's a good chance that he K's one of the first two batters. You can then take him out for the next pitcher once there's two outs.


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