Redszone is the smartest place on the web-lets help Walt get a stud pitcher....

[dougdirt]

Arroyo doesn't miss bats. That scares me. Volquez again is a big question mark. He had a break through season before the injury and looked to be a FIP=4ish arm and who knows if he'll be friends with the strikezone this season.

I will give you Arroyo, but what makes him different from most of the Padres rotation or Tim Hudson in Atlanta? Not much. Most playoff conendending teams have a guy like him right now.

[Falls City Beer]

The Rockies have Ubaldo and a rookie in Chacin who has never thrown 180 innings in a season. In the playoffs, Chacin isn't likely a factor. After Ubaldo then, who do they have?

The Dodgers have who? Kershaw is their ace and he walks nearly 5 guys per 9 innings. In the playoffs, that doesn't worry me one bit. Kuroda and Billingsley are good, but not exactly guys I would be bothered by matching up with any of our top 3 guys.

The Padres best starter is Mat Latos. His career high IP is 122. He is also 22 years old. He won't be starting in the playoffs. Then they have a bunch of guys who don't miss bats in their rotation who are likely posting good ERA's because of the park they play in. Only Richard outside of Latos even has a 2.00 or better K/BB rate in the rotation and he is at 2.13. Why are you worried about that rotation?

Why can't Latos pitch in the postseason if they keep his in-season innings down to about 170 innings? Latos, Leblanc, and Richard are a better trio than Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez.

[Falls City Beer]

I still think Lee is the most likely option for the Reds. While the Marlins have been willing to trade guys like Johnson, I think there's a decent chance that Florida will be in the race.

[nate]

I will give you Arroyo, but what makes him different from most of the Padres rotation or Tim Hudson in Atlanta? Not much. Most playoff conendending teams have a guy like him right now.

If Arroyo actually struck out batters, he'd comp similarly to Kevin Correia who's probably the worst starter on the Padres. Most of the rest of those guys, at least the top three, strike out almost twice as many dudes/9. Arroyo has a 1.34 K/BB ratio. The worst guy on the Pads with significant innings has 1.61.

[nate]

I would like Lee, but I am not handing them Mesoraco and Wood to get it done either.

But is that the only option? Stand pat or give up those two?

I think Walt can make a good deal without shooting all his bullets.

[Falls City Beer]

But is that the only option? Stand pat or give up those two?

I think Walt can make a good deal without shooting all his bullets.

I think it can get done with Alonso/Mez and Wood. But I do think it's going to take players of that caliber to get it done. Lot of suitors for Lee.

[jojo]

Why can't Latos pitch in the postseason if they keep his in-season innings down to about 170 innings? Latos, Leblanc, and Richard are a better trio than Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez.

I think it would take a miracle to get the Marlins to trade Johnson...that's why the example used a group approach.

[RBA]

Alot of the NL West parks are pitchers parks, you can't say that about the NL Central; and Great American Ballpark being one of the worst for pitchers.

[RED VAN HOT]

Walt has resisted the urge to trade top talent for short term gain. In order to get a 'stud' pitcher other teams will ask for top talent. They will not accept a basket of marginal prospects with ceilings of utility player or bull pen arm. I do not believe he would make such a trade unless, like the Rolen deal, WJ believed he had a good chance to retain the pitcher for multiple years. Personally, I believe that both the starters and bullpen are setting up nicely for the second half.

[dougdirt]

Why can't Latos pitch in the postseason if they keep his in-season innings down to about 170 innings? Latos, Leblanc, and Richard are a better trio than Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez.

So in the regular season they add 50 innings to his career high and then I am supposed to worry about him in the playoffs? Don't get me wrong, I really like Latos, I just don't worry about him as a starter in the playoffs this season.

And while Latos, Leblanc and Richard MAY be a better trio than our guys, it certainly isn't by much if at all (assuming Volquez to be healthy, which we have no reason not to believe given what we have seen him do so far on rehab).

[Eric_the_Red]

The Rockies have Ubaldo and a rookie in Chacin who has never thrown 180 innings in a season. In the playoffs, Chacin isn't likely a factor. After Ubaldo then, who do they have?

The Dodgers have who? Kershaw is their ace and he walks nearly 5 guys per 9 innings. In the playoffs, that doesn't worry me one bit. Kuroda and Billingsley are good, but not exactly guys I would be bothered by matching up with any of our top 3 guys.

The Padres best starter is Mat Latos. His career high IP is 122. He is also 22 years old. He won't be starting in the playoffs. Then they have a bunch of guys who don't miss bats in their rotation who are likely posting good ERA's because of the park they play in. Only Richard outside of Latos even has a 2.00 or better K/BB rate in the rotation and he is at 2.13. Why are you worried about that rotation?

I'm sure fans of other teams can say similar things about the Reds. The Reds have no ace to match a Ubaldo or Halladay. At the moment I would guess the Reds game 1 starter in the post-season would be Arroyo. Good, but not exactly an ace. Cueto is much too inconsistent to say with any certainty how he would match up against any pitcher. Who know what Volquez will be like when he returns. Leake/Wood will most likely be shut down. Harang is lucky to give the team a quality start.

Acquiring Lee gives the Reds a legit #1 ace that could win against any other pitcher, and probably moves Arroyo to a game 2 start. I'd match Arroyo up with most #2 starters. And then Volquez/Cueto in games 3 & 4, and use Harang as an emergency starter or long relief (during the post-season).

[dougdirt]

I'm sure fans of other teams can say similar things about the Reds. The Reds have no ace to match a Ubaldo or Halladay. At the moment I would guess the Reds game 1 starter in the post-season would be Arroyo. Good, but not exactly an ace. Cueto is much too inconsistent to say with any certainty how he would match up against any pitcher. Who know what Volquez will be like when he returns. Leake/Wood will most likely be shut down. Harang is lucky to give the team a quality start.

Acquiring Lee gives the Reds a legit #1 ace that could win against any other pitcher, and probably moves Arroyo to a game 2 start. I'd match Arroyo up with most #2 starters. And then Volquez/Cueto in games 3 & 4, and use Harang as an emergency starter or long relief (during the post-season).

Well my argument ignores the Phillies because I named them as being a team we can't match 1-2-3 because of Halladay and Hamels.

But you are right. The Reds and just about everyone else has questionables everywhere else, meaning we aren't really behind the 8 ball against anyone but the Phillies and Cardinals in terms of matching up a 1-2-3 rotation in the playoffs.

[Eric_the_Red]

Well my argument ignores the Phillies because I named them as being a team we can't match 1-2-3 because of Halladay and Hamels.

But you are right. The Reds and just about everyone else has questionables everywhere else, meaning we aren't really behind the 8 ball against anyone but the Phillies and Cardinals in terms of matching up a 1-2-3 rotation in the playoffs.

Exactly. So make a deal for Lee that would match us with the best an put us ahead of most of the competition.

[REDblooded]

Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

I'd probably take the Braves bullpen and 4-man rotation of Lowe, Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens over the Reds at this point...

The Padres rotation is iffy, but has a few decent arms with Garland and Latos... But their Pen is insane (Bell, Stauffer, Adams, Gregerson) ...

And if the Dodgers or Rockies catch fire down the stretch, give me Kershaw, Billingsley, Kuroda or Jimenez, Chacin, Cook/Francis plus pen over what we have too...

Definitely wouldn't be a bad idea to bolster our pitching, though I suspect some of those upgrades can be had from within...

[REDblooded]

Another huge factor regarding Lee, is that any start he logs vs. the Cardinals is almost an auto +1 game in the division win... Cards struggle vs. the lefties... As a team this season the Cards are .247/.321/.396 vs Lefties and .264/.337/.415 vs Righties... Average Runs/PA vs lefties .105 vs lefties and .116 vs righties.

Consider that the league average on the season is 38.1 PA's/G and the Cards facing nothing but lefties would average 4 runs a game vs. lefties, and 4.42 runs a game vs righties... Over a 162 game schedule that equals an extra 68 runs when facing RHP vs LHP... 20 runs in a 5 game series vs. LHP and 22.1 runs in a 5 game vs. RHP... 28 runs in a 7 game series vs. lefties and 30.94 runs in a 7 game series vs. RHP...