Because Pagan would be perfect for them, they'd get something else from the Mets too and the Ms aren't rebuilding in the sense you're suggesting.Originally Posted by mth123
Because Pagan would be perfect for them, they'd get something else from the Mets too and the Ms aren't rebuilding in the sense you're suggesting.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I choose not to engage you on this. Thanks.
They have no legit middle of the order bats. Teams that can't hit in the 3, 4, and 5 holes or don't have a legitimate complement of starting pitchers (with Lee and Bedard likely gone after this year its pretty ugly after King Felix) are rebuilding. The M's need to use their chips to get pitching and power IMO. Its why a Wood/Alonso package would look good to them.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
*Alex Gordon*
He could platoon with Gomes in LF and spell Rolen occasionally without losing as much offense in the lineup. Also he would be insurance in the event that Rolen has to miss any time with an injury. Off the bench, he can provide just as much pop as Laynce Nix while reaching base more. Lastly, consider the fact that he would be under team control for awhile which fits more towards the philosophy of being competitive beyond just this season.
I think he would be the perfect target for the Reds if he could be had from KC.
Love this idea. I'd like to get somebody who can play CF, but would love to get Gordon on the cheap as well.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
Thanks for the useful data on a trade some of us never liked. Simplest way to avoid compounding the mistake is, IMHO, to offer the M's Volquez straight up for Lee. That is, if we must have Lee, which I doubt.
Volquez will be coming back and providing the Reds a legit rotation arm while Hamilton has been replaced with more than adequate production. As the team contends the combo of Volquez and lesser OF is better to have than Hamilton and some ham and egger in the rotation. I'd make the Hamilton for Volquez deal 100 times out of 100. The Reds made the right move IMO.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
MLB Trade Rumor suggests that the Marlins might be making Cody Ross available. He's not a guy I'd give up a lot for but is another guy who might make sense if the Reds were to deal Heisey. The Marlins are said to be looking for help in the pen. I Wonder if Burton and Fisher along with a lower level guy like a Sulbaran would interest them.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
Bedard is probably likely going to stay in Seattle and Pineda will probably be in the rotation too. They have a gaggle to fight for the remaining two spots.
Pagan/Flores makes a lot of sense for their organization. They certainly don't HAVE to make Bavasi cookies by doggedly looking to cookie cutter elements-i.e. sock for the 4th spot... pitcher type X for spot Y.
Their current team is better talent-wise than its record too.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Hopefully you're right about Volquez but he's a question mark and Gomes isn't even half of Hamilton.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I wouldn't do that from a Reds standpoint.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Wigington was the name I liked from that list as a fourth OF/ corner IF. (He'd take ABs away from Cairo, Nix, and Heisey and will probably outproduce all of them this year.)
But then I saw Gordon. He could do the same at less cost and under team control. (Less cost in prospects too, I'm assuming.)
Would KC agree to a Francsico for Gordon deal? He seems like a KC player, in that he's BA driven and allergic to BBs, for the most part. He profiles as a 3B Jose Guillen and that has some serious value. (If he struggles to play the hot corner, both LF and DH spots would be available as well.)
alex gordon is in baseball purgatory and the hands controlling his fate are erratic...he's a gamble for a stretch run too. The Reds need an upgrade they can put in the bank this season.
Josh Willingham might fit that description.
Dang it though. The Sox gave away Swisher. He's look good in left too.
Last edited by jojo; 07-04-2010 at 11:29 AM.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Perhaps the M's would like Chris Dickerson in a deal for Lee. 30ish, decent defender, gets on base, his injury shouldn't impact 2011. If they would take him instead of a younger player, I think everyone in Redsland would get behind it.
As for the sock element, they had a chance to destroy the AL West this year had they gone and gotten a legit middle of the order bat. I know most don't believe that these players are on a team any more and that the strengths of one has impact on others, but its still true no matter how hard we try to calculate hypothetical, individual run values for everything. The M's tried to get too cute with the alternate route and left themsleves short IMO. Getting great value is something I'm all for, but there has to be a legitimate core of production to build it around. A guy like Pagan is a great guy to have on a team as one of the supporting cast members, but if I'm dealing Lee, I want potential lead actors. Flores certainly might qualify.
Last edited by mth123; 07-04-2010 at 11:36 AM.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
I'd be surprised if Z and Jocketty haven't talked about Dickerson if they've talked since Z took over the Ms FO.
Really how many impact bats did the Ms pass on? Vlad would've been a great answer at DH but Jr was an edict passed down from on high and also, Z had a budget limit too.
It might look like Z had a drive going and enigmatically ran out of bounds before crossing the goal line but what he did was build a roster that looked like a 85 win team under some constraints from ownership that limited his ability to maneuver. So the Ms were built on paper to play within striking distance which would've given Z leverage for July moves but the roster also had zero margin of error and no flexibility from the bench. Then everything that could've went wrong did including injuries to key players and half of the lineup starting out in career worst slumps.
I don't think Z was being too cute at all.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
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