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Thread: Joey Votto Superstar?

  1. #16
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Votto keeps this up for another month or so and triple crown discussions will start to bubble up. For the record.

    Avg for Votto: .318. Prado leading the league at .331. Votto is tied for third.

    Votto leading with 21 HR.

    Votto 59 RBI. Wright leading the league at 64. Votto is tied for fourth.

    The triple crown is one of those weird fun achievements that I have always wanted to see legitimately chased in my lifetime. I was born in 1970, so I have never seen one even seriously challenged.

    For some reason, I kinda want to on my baseball fan bucket list.
    Last edited by membengal; 07-06-2010 at 11:14 AM.

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  3. #17
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion View Post
    Yes, he is what we always hoped Sean Casey would grow into.
    SuperStar!
    Casey had 1.049 OPS at the AS break 10 years ago, and he was younger.

  4. #18
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    To be a "superstar," you have to combine talent, production, and hype.

    Votto is in the middle of a perfect storm of hype right now. Sportswriters love to point out snubbed All-Stars every year, and this year, Votto is undeniable, so his face and stat line are all over the web and the ESPNs.

    Votto is right on the cusp of superstardom. If he makes the All-Star team, he'll be launched into the rarefied air reserved for Pujols, Teixiera, et al.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  5. #19
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Casey had 1.049 OPS at the AS break 10 years ago, and he was younger.
    Votto is better hitter than Casey, and it isn't all that close.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  6. #20
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Votto is better hitter than Casey, and it isn't all that close.
    actually it is. the difference between them was health and speed. Votto has both.

    But for pure hitting ability, when healthy, Sean Casey was as good as any player in MLB.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #21
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    actually it is. the difference between them was health and speed. Votto has both.

    But for pure hitting ability, when healthy, Sean Casey was as good as any player in MLB.
    Sorry -- Votto has significantly more power than Casey ever did. He's in a different class.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  8. #22
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Yeah, not seeing the power comp trf, not even close. Votto's power is to all fields, and legit to all fields. Casey was NEVER in that class.

  9. #23
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Votto is better hitter than Casey, and it isn't all that close.
    More power and walks more, Sean Casey had some serious press 10 years ago, dig around and revisit, fame is a fickle lover.

  10. #24
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    More power and walks more, Sean Casey had some serious press 10 years ago, dig around and revisit, fame is a fickle lover.
    I know. But thew talk around Casey was "batting title someday" talk. The talk around Votto is inching into "triple crown" territory. The power is a legitimate separator.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #25
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I know. But thew talk around Casey was "batting title someday" talk. The talk around Votto is inching into "triple crown" territory. The power is a legitimate separator.
    Very true. Casey had pretty decent power his first year or two but after that it dropped off. Perhaps it was due to injury but after that he was more of a singles and doubles hitter. I think a lot of Reds fans' views about him are enhanced somewhat because he played on the last Reds winning teams and because he was/is so gregarious.
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  12. #26
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    I put forth that Casey was only healthy for 2.5 seasons. Now overlooking health as a skill for just a moment and look at his 1999, 2000 and 2004 seasons.

    Code:
    G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
    151	669	594	103	197	42	3	25	99	0	2	61	88	.332	.399	.539	.938
    133	545	480	69	151	33	2	20	85	1	0	52	80	.315	.385	.517	.902
    146	633	571	101	185	44	2	24	99	2	0	46	36	.324	.381	.534	.915
    Casey may have had less HR power, but he was a doubles machine, with big time gap power. He was a guy that probably could have won a batting title or two, but he just couldn't stay healthy. These three seasons were indicative of his talent/skill level. Project them over the course of a 13-15 year career and you have one of the best 1B in the game during that span. Had he stayed healthy, the HR power likely would have increased at least into the low 30's.

    2004: 36K's in 633 PA's that's ridiculous for a guy with 24 HR's and 44 2B's.

    He just couldn't stay healthy.

    Ya know we don't HAVE to tear down players like Casey and Dunn to show that Votto is good.
    Last edited by TRF; 07-06-2010 at 12:52 PM.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #27
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    I think the one true difference between Votto and Pujols is the strike outs. I think if Votto ever cuts back on the K's then he will be in Pujols territory. After seeing last year and the first half of this season I have little doubt that Votto has the sustainability to be a great offensive player in baseball for a number of years.

    As for the Gonzalez comparison I think they are ok but I think Votto will always have a better AVG and Gonzales will be held back numbers wise offensively because of Petco park. I just don't see him leaving there anytime soon as he grew up and was raised in the SD area.

  14. #28
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    trf, I don't know how I am "tearing Casey down" by noting the legit difference in power.

  15. #29
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    Not saying you in particular, but it does seem to be a Redszone trademark.

    And Casey had plenty of power. He just didn't have health. his best seasons, 99 and 04 were separated by 4 years of torn up shoulders. For all the lamenting of what could have been for Jr., I feel the same way about Casey. We could have seen 3 .950+ OPS bats from 2001 on had those two been as healthy as Dunn.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #30
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    Re: Joey Votto Superstar?

    So how much more does it cost the team for a LTD for Votto to reach Superstar status? 8 years 160?
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

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