Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,847

    Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    On the hottest day in NYC since 2001, I made the trek to Citi Field to watch the game. I have quite a few novice thoughts about what I saw.

    A.) Pre-game, Brandon Phillips signed more autographs for little kids than any player of any team.

    B.) 1st inning, Phillips doubles with no outs. Cabrera bunts him over to 3rd? Why? True, he could've struck out or flyed out but that just didn't seem productive to me to give away an out in that situation, even with Votto following him. Some may disagree.

    C.) Matt Maloney. First time watching him pitch live. I had good seats. He has great command and he definitely knows how to work the corners...but to all of his supporters...he's not a guy you would want in the Reds rotation IMO. First off, Wood has much better stuff than he does and to be honest, I think Sam LeCure has better stuff than Maloney does too. Maloney gave up a ton of balls that either would've been out at GAB or off the wall. I do think he could be a BOR starter somewhere out west though and he's not a bad guy to have at AAA for depth, but I would not want Maloney in the rotation for the Reds. Also, a bad pitch can happen to anyone, but giving Santana his first career home run? Who is a LH batter? That seemed suspect. Chapman, Wood and LeCure are all better IMO.

    D.) It wasn't that Santana was so great tonight, it was that the Reds did him a lot of favors. I don't know whose idea it was to hack early in the counts, but I think if the Reds had been more patient at the plate, they would've gotten better pitches to hit or would've forced more walks. The Mets also are currently very short in their pen and forcing their pen to pitch would have favored the Reds a lot. Instead, Santana throws a complete game 3 hit shutout. I just don't get the 1st pitch swinging. I don't think it resulted in a single hit the entire night. Brandon Phillips and oddly enough Corky Miller were the only ones I thought tonight who made great contact with his pitches.

    E.) By far, the most damaging part of the evening was the 5th inning. Maloney was already around and then later above 100 pitches. He was laboring. The Mets had figured him out. Despite letting runners on base Maloney somehow managed to get 2 outs with runners at 2nd and 3rd and Bay up. The Mets only had 1 run at this point. Maloney was at I believe 104 pitches at this point and Bay was up, who had been hitting Maloney hard the whole night, just without results. I immediately said to myself...he should be replaced. This is a crucial time in the game, Maloney does not have the best stuff, get a high leverage arm in there. If you don't, it's going to end badly. What happens? Dusty leaves him in....boom. 2 run 2 out single. I know a lot of people dislike Dusty and his decisions...but the 1 I cannot understand for the life of me is Baker's obsession with letting pitchers finish the inning they started and then yanking the pitcher only after they explode and it's too late as the other team has put up a big crooked number. Maybe that's part of his MO in being a "player's manager," but it doesn't help the team. There is no reason he should have let Maloney pitch in that spot. Can anyone explain this to me? Has Dusty ever explained it? It's not like Maloney had the lead or anything and it's not like he wasn't having trouble. He was definitely having a bad inning. I just do not understand the long leash for pitchers in close games.

    F.) Ondrusek looked really good. I've been critical of him in the past, but I'm starting to come around. He may be a useful guy in the pen.

    G.) Honestly, Bray did not look that good to me. I know he's just coming back and he ended up doing okay on paper tonight, but I think he should be in low pressure situations for a while longer.

    That's pretty much all I got. Did anyone else go?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Centerville, Ohio
    Posts
    1,420

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    E.)I know a lot of people dislike Dusty and his decisions...but the 1 I cannot understand for the life of me is Baker's obsession with letting pitchers finish the inning they started and then yanking the pitcher only after they explode and it's too late as the other team has put up a big crooked number. Maybe that's part of his MO in being a "player's manager," but it doesn't help the team. There is no reason he should have let Maloney pitch in that spot. Can anyone explain this to me? Has Dusty ever explained it? It's not like Maloney had the lead or anything and it's not like he wasn't having trouble. He was definitely having a bad inning. I just do not understand the long leash for pitchers in close games.
    He wanted to get him a chance at the win in case they scored the next inning. Said it before, say it again, he manages for the what if and not the what is.
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

    Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels...

  4. #3
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    E.) By far, the most damaging part of the evening was the 5th inning. Maloney was already around and then later above 100 pitches. He was laboring. The Mets had figured him out. Despite letting runners on base Maloney somehow managed to get 2 outs with runners at 2nd and 3rd and Bay up. The Mets only had 1 run at this point. Maloney was at I believe 104 pitches at this point and Bay was up, who had been hitting Maloney hard the whole night, just without results. I immediately said to myself...he should be replaced. This is a crucial time in the game, Maloney does not have the best stuff, get a high leverage arm in there. If you don't, it's going to end badly. What happens? Dusty leaves him in....boom. 2 run 2 out single. I know a lot of people dislike Dusty and his decisions...but the 1 I cannot understand for the life of me is Baker's obsession with letting pitchers finish the inning they started and then yanking the pitcher only after they explode and it's too late as the other team has put up a big crooked number. Maybe that's part of his MO in being a "player's manager," but it doesn't help the team. There is no reason he should have let Maloney pitch in that spot. Can anyone explain this to me? Has Dusty ever explained it? It's not like Maloney had the lead or anything and it's not like he wasn't having trouble. He was definitely having a bad inning. I just do not understand the long leash for pitchers in close games.
    First of all, nice post.

    I agree with ya. I was surprised when Dusty didn't bring in Ondrusek to face Jason Bay. With the way Santana was pitching, the Reds had to hold the Mets to that one run and I thought Ondrusek gave them the best chance at keeping the Mets scoreless in that inning. Unfortunately, Dusty stuck with Maloney one batter too long and it come back to hurt him. Who knows, maybe Ondrusek would have allowed those two runs to score but I thought he was a better matchup vs Bay. I'll surely jinx him with this post but Logan Ondrusek has now retired the last 19 batters he's faced.

    I also didn't like the sac bunt in the first inning. Phillips was already in scoring position, there's no need to give up an out in that situation, IMO.

    Oh well, hopefully good Arroyo shows up Wednesday night and the Reds cap off another series win.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #4
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Centerville, Ohio
    Posts
    1,420

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Oh well, hopefully good Arroyo shows up Wednesday night and the Reds cap off another series win.
    Arroyo rules the Mets.

    He walks past the Mets dugout during pregame and mouths the words "own you" while winking and pointing at them... LOL
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

    Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels...

  6. #5
    Member OesterPoster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    West-central Ohio
    Posts
    2,052

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    E.) What happens? Dusty leaves him in....boom. 2 run 2 out single. I know a lot of people dislike Dusty and his decisions...but the 1 I cannot understand for the life of me is Baker's obsession with letting pitchers finish the inning they started and then yanking the pitcher only after they explode and it's too late as the other team has put up a big crooked number. Maybe that's part of his MO in being a "player's manager," but it doesn't help the team. There is no reason he should have let Maloney pitch in that spot. Can anyone explain this to me? Has Dusty ever explained it? It's not like Maloney had the lead or anything and it's not like he wasn't having trouble. He was definitely having a bad inning. I just do not understand the long leash for pitchers in close games.
    I was listening on the radio during this segment, and Brantley/Marty did not like the decision to leave Maloney in...then take him out. Brantley referred to it as "closing the barn door after the horses already are out".

  7. #6
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    25,060

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    I wasn't there, but I watched the first three innings. Maloney's got good control and that is it. Literally. No life or movement on the FB. Seems to know what to do, but he doesn't have MLB stuff. I agree with fearofpop.

  8. #7
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    G.) Honestly, Bray did not look that good to me. I know he's just coming back and he ended up doing okay on paper tonight, but I think he should be in low pressure situations for a while longer.
    Interestingly, I had the complete polar opposite opinion of Bray after going to the Reds/Cubs game on Saturday 7/3/10. Bray looked very dominant, and struck out the side without a single good hack from a Cub. Given, the Mets offense is light years better than the Cubs, but interesting none the less.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    The base you want to acquire is home.

  9. #8
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,053

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I wasn't there, but I watched the first three innings. Maloney's got good control and that is it. Literally. No life or movement on the FB. Seems to know what to do, but he doesn't have MLB stuff. I agree with fearofpop.
    Agree. His stuff always screams AAAA to me. He's a fine AAA pitcher but when he gets to this level he is exposed. IMO we gave away a game last night; Lecure or Chapman give us more of a shot to win last night.

    There really was no sense in signing Aroldis Chapman if we're going to throw away games by starting Matt Maloneys against Johan Santanas in a pennant race. Silly, silly move by the organization.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

  10. #9
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruce32 View Post
    Agree. His stuff always screams AAAA to me. He's a fine AAA pitcher but when he gets to this level he is exposed. IMO we gave away a game last night; Lecure or Chapman give us more of a shot to win last night.

    There really was no sense in signing Aroldis Chapman if we're going to throw away games by starting Matt Maloneys against Johan Santanas in a pennant race. Silly, silly move by the organization.
    Options were very limited yesterday, as Harang went on the DL at something like 430pm...
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    The base you want to acquire is home.

  11. #10
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,264

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruce32 View Post
    Agree. His stuff always screams AAAA to me. He's a fine AAA pitcher but when he gets to this level he is exposed. IMO we gave away a game last night; Lecure or Chapman give us more of a shot to win last night.

    There really was no sense in signing Aroldis Chapman if we're going to throw away games by starting Matt Maloneys against Johan Santanas in a pennant race. Silly, silly move by the organization.
    I am fairly certain that the entire Reds organization does not thing Chapman is ready to start at the major league level. It was made even more evident when they put him in the pen this season. Comments like these make me scratch my head. It is unfortunate that Maloney had to start against Santana but that is the nature of MLB. You don't get to pick and choose when someone gets hurt and whose turn it is at the AAA level.

  12. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,928

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    On the hottest day in NYC since 2001, I made the trek to Citi Field to watch the game. I have quite a few novice thoughts about what I saw.

    A.) Pre-game, Brandon Phillips signed more autographs for little kids than any player of any team.

    B.) 1st inning, Phillips doubles with no outs. Cabrera bunts him over to 3rd? Why? True, he could've struck out or flyed out but that just didn't seem productive to me to give away an out in that situation, even with Votto following him. Some may disagree.

    C.) Matt Maloney. First time watching him pitch live. I had good seats. He has great command and he definitely knows how to work the corners...but to all of his supporters...he's not a guy you would want in the Reds rotation IMO. First off, Wood has much better stuff than he does and to be honest, I think Sam LeCure has better stuff than Maloney does too. Maloney gave up a ton of balls that either would've been out at GAB or off the wall. I do think he could be a BOR starter somewhere out west though and he's not a bad guy to have at AAA for depth, but I would not want Maloney in the rotation for the Reds. Also, a bad pitch can happen to anyone, but giving Santana his first career home run? Who is a LH batter? That seemed suspect. Chapman, Wood and LeCure are all better IMO.

    D.) It wasn't that Santana was so great tonight, it was that the Reds did him a lot of favors. I don't know whose idea it was to hack early in the counts, but I think if the Reds had been more patient at the plate, they would've gotten better pitches to hit or would've forced more walks. The Mets also are currently very short in their pen and forcing their pen to pitch would have favored the Reds a lot. Instead, Santana throws a complete game 3 hit shutout. I just don't get the 1st pitch swinging. I don't think it resulted in a single hit the entire night. Brandon Phillips and oddly enough Corky Miller were the only ones I thought tonight who made great contact with his pitches.

    E.) By far, the most damaging part of the evening was the 5th inning. Maloney was already around and then later above 100 pitches. He was laboring. The Mets had figured him out. Despite letting runners on base Maloney somehow managed to get 2 outs with runners at 2nd and 3rd and Bay up. The Mets only had 1 run at this point. Maloney was at I believe 104 pitches at this point and Bay was up, who had been hitting Maloney hard the whole night, just without results. I immediately said to myself...he should be replaced. This is a crucial time in the game, Maloney does not have the best stuff, get a high leverage arm in there. If you don't, it's going to end badly. What happens? Dusty leaves him in....boom. 2 run 2 out single. I know a lot of people dislike Dusty and his decisions...but the 1 I cannot understand for the life of me is Baker's obsession with letting pitchers finish the inning they started and then yanking the pitcher only after they explode and it's too late as the other team has put up a big crooked number. Maybe that's part of his MO in being a "player's manager," but it doesn't help the team. There is no reason he should have let Maloney pitch in that spot. Can anyone explain this to me? Has Dusty ever explained it? It's not like Maloney had the lead or anything and it's not like he wasn't having trouble. He was definitely having a bad inning. I just do not understand the long leash for pitchers in close games.

    F.) Ondrusek looked really good. I've been critical of him in the past, but I'm starting to come around. He may be a useful guy in the pen.

    G.) Honestly, Bray did not look that good to me. I know he's just coming back and he ended up doing okay on paper tonight, but I think he should be in low pressure situations for a while longer.

    That's pretty much all I got. Did anyone else go?
    I went last night also. Actually was my third Reds game this week (caught Saturday and Sunday at Wrigley)

    Pretty much agree with your assessments. Maloney was hanging on by a thread all night, and I think his line looked better than the actual outing. He is a good spot starter/long reliever, nothing more- just like LeCure and Owings, although he is left-handed. He reminded me of the patchwork starters from the late Bowden years- a Bobby Basham or Josh Hall here, a Jose Acevedo or a Lance Davis there.

    The Reds swinging on the first pitch of almost every at-bat really irked me. Ondrusek looked very good. Bray not so much.
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #12
    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    402

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    I was there. It was like, 100 degrees out. I'll disagree with your D though. Santana was lights out. Yes the Reds were swinging early in the count, but you almost have to when Jo-Han is on his game. He forces the issue.
    My name is Cheesy Beef Burrito

  14. #13
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC or thereabouts
    Posts
    3,880

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    I didn't have much of a problem with Cabrera bunting Phillips to 3rd, but that's only because I figured he was going to make an out anyway (a .291 OBP will do that). Generally speaking though, I don't care for that strategy.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

  15. #14
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,543

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    I didn't have much of a problem with Cabrera bunting Phillips to 3rd, but that's only because I figured he was going to make an out anyway (a .291 OBP will do that). Generally speaking though, I don't care for that strategy.

    I could go either way on that. Dusty may have figured - correctly - that the Reds weren't going to score many runs off Santana and 1 run might have made the difference. I can't fault him too much there especially with Votto and Rolen coming up.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  16. #15
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,060

    Re: Observations from Citi Field, 7.6.10

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I could go either way on that. Dusty may have figured - correctly - that the Reds weren't going to score many runs off Santana and 1 run might have made the difference. I can't fault him too much there especially with Votto and Rolen coming up.
    Last night I thought that Dusty made a bad decision to have Cabrerra bunt Phillips to third. Then, today, I looked up an interesting article on run proabability in bunt situations, and I'm not so sure. See the article HERE.

    The general run expectancy for a runner on second with no outs is about 1.054, while the run expenctancy of a runner on third with one out is .907. So that means that IF the bunt succeeds, you will reduce the chance of scoring. Of course, if the bunt fails, you end up with a runner on second or first with one out, and the run expectancy declines even more. So from this standpoint, it looked like a bad call to bunt.

    However, when you look at the likliehood of scoring one run, and you factor in the position in the batting order affected, the chance of scoring one run with the #2 hitter up with a runner on second and no outs is .659. The chances of scoring one run with a generic #3 hitter up and with a runner on third and one out is .696. So the chances of scoring one runner are a little higher IF the bunt works, which it did. Plus, Votto and Rolen may be above average as #3 and #4 hitters, while Cabrerra is likely below average as a #2 hitter although he is a good bunter, which make this way look a little better.

    However, why would you play for one run in the first inning? That isn't really a very good strategy given that Santana has not been all that effective over his last six or seven starts. Even in view of all this statistical stuff, I wouldn't have given away that out.
    Last edited by mbgrayson; 07-07-2010 at 02:36 PM.
    __________________
    “This one was a perfect one. I don’t know if I can find a better one, better timing. He [Price] really said some great things there. It really encouraged us to go back and do what we do. … I didn’t know he could speak like that.” Brayan Pena 5/21/14


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25