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Thread: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

  1. #61
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Pretty much everyone of these pitchers broke into the league as combination starters/relievers, probably due to nor being good enough to crack the 4 man rotation.

    Only Niekro was essentially a reliever, and that was not becuase they were breaking him in, they felt that was going to be his role.

    It's a more recent development of breaking in starters as relievers, but in the old days the bullpen was geenrally reserved for pitchers who ranked below a teams best 4.
    To be honest, the list is pretty meaningless. Wasn't even trying to counter you, just providing a list.

    You are right, being a reliever pre 1980's which is when all those guys started, meant something completely different than it does now. Nearly every pitcher started as a reliever unless he was a young stud.

    I wonder how many TOR starters today broke in as a reliever? I really don't know. It would be interesting research.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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  3. #62
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    ....and my point, is that if Johan Santana can spend his first 4 years in the Majors nudging into a Starters role because he has major control problems just like Chapman, then it's good enough for Chapman. If somebody wants to counter that spending any time as a Reliever is going to hinder Chapman's chances of being a successful Starter, well... it's not. I think Walt knows what he's doing.

  4. #63
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    I have little doubt Chapman will be up in September, but I'm not sure how much of a factor he'll be out of the pen unless he gains some control.
    I don't think any of us do, including Chapman.

    This is one of the reasons I like him as a Reliever right now.

    You work with him. Get him out there. Watch the results. Then work with him again. You don't have to wait 5 days for him to work out live what he and the Coaches are working on with him. 2 or 3 days and he's back out there. It's a better "schooling" situation.

  5. #64
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Juan Duran went 1-for-3 with a double and a walk tonight. In his last four games he's 5-for-14 with a double, a HR, and four walks.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #65
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    The AZL Reds lost 6-3. Junior Arias went 2-for-5 with a double.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I just think it's important not to rush him and end up setting him back.
    I agree but it's too late. FO is obviously hell bent on getting some return on their investment THIS SEASON. Bringing him up to let him throw heat one inning every three days instead of leaving him in the minors to learn how to pitch using all of his stuff is nothing but counter productive IMO. We may not actually know for a couple more years how the move worked out, but I'm not liking the looks of it.

    And Santana wasn't nearly as wild the year before his initial ML season as Chapman currently is. Santana was at 3.1 BB/9. Chapman is at 5.5 right now. He also had fewer wild pitches in 160 innings than Chapman has in 74.
    Last edited by RedsFanInBama; 07-08-2010 at 01:27 AM.

  8. #67
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInBama View Post
    I agree but it's too late. FO is obviously hell bent on getting some return on their investment THIS SEASON. Bringing him up to let him throw heat one inning every three days instead of leaving him in the minors to learn how to pitch using all of his stuff is nothing but counter productive IMO. We may not actually know for a couple more years how the move worked out, but I'm not liking the looks of it.

    And Santana wasn't nearly as wild the year before his initial ML season as Chapman currently is. Santana was at 3.1 BB/9. Chapman is at 5.5 right now. He also had fewer wild pitches in 160 innings than Chapman has in 74.
    Santana led the American League in Wild Pitches (15) during his 3rd season in the Majors while only pitching 108 innings. He still only started half of the games he was in that season, as they still were trying to get him to control his pitches.

    His last two years in the minors ('98-'99) before staying in the Majors permanently for 3 years he had 20 Wild Pitches and 20 Hit Batsmen in only 253 IP.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 07-08-2010 at 01:45 AM.

  9. #68
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    The biggest difference between Santana and Chapman is simple.... Santana had to be rushed to the majors because he was taken in the Rule 5 draft. In order to control him, you had to deal with his growing pains at the major league level. That does not have to happen with Chapman.

  10. #69
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Not that it really matters, but regarding the wild pitches, Santana had 18 over the 98-99 seasons. And that averages out to one wild pitch every 14 innings. Chapman is at one every six innings.

  11. #70
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Bats win 6-1

    Code:
    Player	        AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	AVG
    Hanigan C	3	2	2	1	0	0	2	0	0	.239
    Denove PH-C	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.239
    Cozart SS	5	1	2	0	0	1	3	0	1	.256
    Alonso 1B	2	0	2	0	0	0	0	2	0	.263
    Frazier LF	4	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	1	.233
    Francisco 3B	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	2	.277
    Dorn RF	        3	1	3	1	0	0	0	1	0	.331
    Valaika 2B	3	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	0	.297
    Griffin CF	4	1	2	1	0	0	1	0	0	.321
    Klinker P	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	.000
    Herrera P	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000
    
    Player	                IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA
    Klinker (W, 3-1)	6.0	1	0	0	2	7	0	3.91
    Burton 	                1.0	0	0	0	0	2	0	3.32
    Chapman 	        0.2	1	1	1	2	2	0	4.38
    Herrera (S, 1)	        1.1	0	0	0	0	1	0	4.76

  12. #71
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Nice to see Hanigan with a couple hits. I'd love to see Burton back to the form he had a couple seasons back.

  13. #72
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInBama View Post
    Nice to see Hanigan with a couple hits. I'd love to see Burton back to the form he had a couple seasons back.
    He looked pretty good tonight. Nice slider.

  14. #73
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    I am hoping Hanigan gets back to Cincy soon...but I wonder if they'll wait until after the break?

    Alonso sure is raising his trading stock at a good time. I'd like to see Dorn promoted to Cincy and Nix DFA'ed.

  15. #74
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInBama View Post
    Not that it really matters, but regarding the wild pitches, Santana had 18 over the 98-99 seasons. And that averages out to one wild pitch every 14 innings. Chapman is at one every six innings.
    We have the Tazmanian Devil in Chapman.

  16. #75
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    Re: Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, Minor League Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The biggest difference between Santana and Chapman is simple.... Santana had to be rushed to the majors because he was taken in the Rule 5 draft. In order to control him, you had to deal with his growing pains at the major league level. That does not have to happen with Chapman.
    Then that was probably why they handled it the way they did.


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