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Thread: Cliff Lee

  1. #16
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Alonso's D in LF leaves a lot to be desired, he is very plodding out there and takes awhile to get to balls hit in the gaps and the corners. He is going to have to rake in order to be considered anything other than trade bait.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

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  3. #17
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Since I mentioned WMP in another thread, he's another Guy I'd look at if I'm Seattle. Had a very good season in the D.R., would come cheap and could be a serious upgrade at DH. His power certainly plays anywhere.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #18
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    The only way you shut Leake down early if the reds have no chance to make the playoffs barring set backs or injury. It is not like his pitch counts are high or he throwing as hard as he can every pitch. And Why is everyone ready to give up on Alonso so fast? This is what his second full year, he is now at AAA learning to play left and he broke his hand last year and they say it takes a full year to get your power back from that injury.

  5. #19
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Alonso in LF? Think about it...wouldn't Alonso's ceiling for 2010 be basically what Gomes has provided over that past year plus?
    Its a good question and an answer I do not know. I am a fan of Gomes because I think he fits the bill a platoon player, who when hot is dangerous. His defense is much maligned, and rightfully so sometimes, but I think he is also the emotional leader on the team. I do think an issue with Gomes is that he is who he is. He is a .260-.280/.330/.450-.550 guy.

    In the minors Yonder has been a .292/.383/.447 guy. I have a feeling you will see an increase in his slg once his wrist fully heals. So the issue really becomes, if the Reds think that Alonso can sustain his minor league numbers in the MLB, are you willing to trade Gomes slg for Yonder's OBP?

  6. #20
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Its a good question and an answer I do not know. I am a fan of Gomes because I think he fits the bill a platoon player, who when hot is dangerous. His defense is much maligned, and rightfully so sometimes, but I think he is also the emotional leader on the team. I do think an issue with Gomes is that he is who he is. He is a .260-.280/.330/.450-.550 guy.

    In the minors Yonder has been a .292/.383/.447 guy. I have a feeling you will see an increase in his slg once his wrist fully heals. So the issue really becomes, if the Reds think that Alonso can sustain his minor league numbers in the MLB, are you willing to trade Gomes slg for Yonder's OBP?

    Depth is important. Particularly on a team like the Reds which lacks true superstars. You need as many good players as you can get.

    It's too soon to consider trading a boatload of prospects for Cliff Lee. In July, it might be a good move.

    Meanwhile, the Reds need to improve their bench so if guys like Valaika and Alonso keep raking at AAA, I'd give them a shot in a platoon or backup capacity. I'd also consider a trade for a good utility man, preferably a left handed hitter or switch hitter. I'd also consider a move for another good righty reliever.

  7. #21
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    fantastic post!

    Johnny Gomes recent en fuego streak has made us forget he is Johnny Gomes. Nice guy to play LF/DH vs a LHP. Good bench bat. Not an everyday player. Whether the team goes out to get another guy to share LF with Johnny depends on how Alonso looks in AAA both with the glove & with the bat.
    Gomes now has 426 plate appearances under his belt as a Cincinnati Reds' player. He has an .846 OPS as a Red.

    I think the "not an everyday player" mantra does him a bit of a disservice. I do think he gives away enough of his above-average production offensively with the glove to warrant being vigilant for possible LF upgrades near the deadline. However, if he can sustain near .850 as a Red (and I think the recent streak is indicative of what he showed glimpses of doing last year), he actually would be justified as an everyday player.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #22
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003 View Post
    The only way you shut Leake down early if the reds have no chance to make the playoffs barring set backs or injury. It is not like his pitch counts are high or he throwing as hard as he can every pitch. And Why is everyone ready to give up on Alonso so fast? This is what his second full year, he is now at AAA learning to play left and he broke his hand last year and they say it takes a full year to get your power back from that injury.
    I don't think anyone is giving up on Alonso, or insinuating that he won't be a good player. But sometimes, you have to give up something in one area to acquire a pressing need in another area. And with Votto at 1B, this team has a surplus at the position. And if trading Alonso helps fill a hole at another position, so be it.

  9. #23
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Gomes now has 426 plate appearances under his belt as a Cincinnati Reds' player. He has an .846 OPS as a Red.

    I think the "not an everyday player" mantra does him a bit of a disservice. I do think he gives away enough of his above-average production offensively with the glove to warrant being vigilant for possible LF upgrades near the deadline. However, if he can sustain near .850 as a Red (and I think the recent streak is indicative of what he showed glimpses of doing last year), he actually would be justified as an everyday player.
    i believe a replacement level left fielder should OPS ~.750 & play neutral defense in left. Johnny has OPSed higher than that as a Red but his poor defense gives back runs.

    WAR 2009 +1.1
    WAR 2010 -0.1 (suprisingly low due to very poor UZR rating)

    i like Johnny a lot. its fun to root for a guy who plays the game with such enthusiasm. he's not a bad player. he's not a good one either IMO. i think he's a great bench guy. i think his numbers vs LHP probably are good enough for him to play LF as a starter. i just don't think his numbers vs RHP are good enough for that. hence a player who can play LF & hit well vs RHP seems a good spot to upgrade.
    .

  10. #24
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    It's only worth getting Lee if the Reds are securely in contention at the trade deadline. He will be a two month rental, and an expensive one at that. If Philly didn't think they could sign him after this year, there's no way the Reds could.
    Yup.I would even go a step further by saying they should only go after Lee if they think he's going to be enough to get the team a championship.I don't think he'd be worth the price if we're just talking about needing him to win a weak division only to get our butts kicked in the first round.Don't get me wrong,I'd like the team improved (if they need to) to have a season where they only win the division but I like it done without giving up top prospects for short term rentals.I admit that the idea of adding Lee sounds pretty exciting but I think we'd regret it if the Reds didn't have a World Series Championship to show for it.

  11. #25
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    Yup.I would even go a step further by saying they should only go after Lee if they think he's going to be enough to get the team a championship.I don't think he'd be worth the price if we're just talking about needing him to win a weak division only to get our butts kicked in the first round.Don't get me wrong,I'd like the team improved (if they need to) to have a season where they only win the division but I like it done without giving up top prospects for short term rentals.I admit that the idea of adding Lee sounds pretty exciting but I think we'd regret it if the Reds didn't have a World Series Championship to show for it.
    All you have to do is make the playoffs. After that, no one knows. Look at the Marlins, Cardinals and Red Sox as examples from the past decade. It's like approaching the pretty girl at the bar- you'll never know if you don't try.

    Prospects aren't even prospects when they are blocked at the big league level- they are just trade bait.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #26
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    All you have to do is make the playoffs. After that, no one knows. Look at the Marlins, Cardinals and Red Sox as examples from the past decade. It's like approaching the pretty girl at the bar- you'll never know if you don't try.

    Prospects aren't even prospects when they are blocked at the big league level- they are just trade bait.
    I'm all for trading prospects but I'm not for trading top prospects for a guy that would likely only put on a Reds uni for less then a few months.If the Reds could get some kind of commitment from Lee then that would change things a bit.

    Like I said, I'd love to get Lee but 10 years of loosing can make you a bit short sighted.The Reds already have a ton of pitching and if they're talking about putting some of their biggest chips on the table then I'd prefer them to be doing it in an effort to obtain some offense.

  13. #27
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    The Reds haven't made the playoffs in 15 stinkin' years. If they're "legit" contenders around the deadline, parting with Alonso for a guy like Lee is a no-brainer, IMO. Holding onto key prospects is something often bantered about on here with a willingness to part with them. Teams like the Reds can't afford to sit back and wait "hoping" a prospect will live up to expectations. But whether or not they're "legit" contenders as opposed to contenders in the standings only is another topic altogether.

    Heck, if they wanted Jay Bruce instead of Alonso, I'd do that one too.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  14. #28
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    The Reds haven't made the playoffs in 15 stinkin' years. If they're "legit" contenders around the deadline, parting with Alonso for a guy like Lee is a no-brainer, IMO. Holding onto key prospects is something often bantered about on here with a willingness to part with them. Teams like the Reds can't afford to sit back and wait "hoping" a prospect will live up to expectations. But whether or not they're "legit" contenders as opposed to contenders in the standings only is another topic altogether.

    Heck, if they wanted Jay Bruce instead of Alonso, I'd do that one too.
    If you have a team already contending that has a good chance to make the playoffs with or without Lee why in the world would you trade Bruce for him.Especially with Lee likely going to the top bidder at seasons end.If the Reds trade Bruce then we'd have one of the worse outfields in all of baseball.That would be a bad move for this year and years to come imo.

  15. #29
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    There's no way I would trade Bruce for Lee. Alonso? Heck yes.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  16. #30
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    There's no way I would trade Bruce for Lee. Alonso? Heck yes.
    Tried to think of a Bruce Lee joke but came up short
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