Turn Off Ads?
Page 33 of 43 FirstFirst ... 23293031323334353637 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 495 of 644

Thread: Cliff Lee

  1. #481
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    1,164

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Are Haren and/or Drew available? If so I wouldn't waste my time bidding up Lee if that means the price ultimately goes up for Haren. Although for my money I'd go after a shortstop as hard as starting pitching, but I would look to strengthen the pen.
    This place use to be fun

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #482
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,643

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Scott Rolen?
    Toché, OBM.

    I had horrid memories of Gary Majewski, Shawn Estes, Brian Mohler and Ryan Dempster in my head, and I overlooked one of the key components to the current roster.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  4. #483
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,228

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Maybe I'm just cynical, but I've seen midseason deal after midsesason deal blow up in the face of the Cincinnati Reds. I honestly cannot remember the last time the team added a player who did anything remotely close to what the team needed / wanted them to do. It seems like these things always backfire for this franchise.

    Am I the only one who expects Lee, if he were to come to Cincinnati, to immediately become ineffective and post an over-4.00 ERA the rest of the way? It just seems that's how this story would end.
    I'm not convinced that Lee will be as great as people are expecting.

    But the Reds really haven't been in this situation in the last ten years. The last time they truly were in contention was 1999. That year they got Juan Guzman for B.J. Ryan, and Guzman was very effective for the Reds down the stretch. Sure, they kinda were in contention a few times, but they were more than a few players away from really contending. I think it was more that the teams just weren't that good, than the trade didn't work out, or at least some of both.

    I think this year the Reds are actually a better team than 1999, and one key player can make them into nit just contendere, but favorites.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #484
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,869

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by alloverjr View Post
    Are Haren and/or Drew available? If so I wouldn't waste my time bidding up Lee if that means the price ultimately goes up for Haren. Although for my money I'd go after a shortstop as hard as starting pitching, but I would look to strengthen the pen.
    Reportedly.

    I'd offer Bailey, Wood, Alonso and Cozart for Haren and Drew. Makes us much better for this year and still better for the future.
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #485
    Member kbrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,321

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Not sure how people are worried about how Lee would hold up in GABP but think Haren is a good idea...I just don't get it.

  7. #486
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,398

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    Not sure how people are worried about how Lee would hold up in GABP but think Haren is a good idea...I just don't get it.
    People like thinking outside the box and not exactly rationally. What's fun for them in agreeing with the obvious that Lee is light years better than Dan Haren?
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  8. #487
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Centerville, Ohio
    Posts
    1,420

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Haren is my first choice. I've said it in other posts, Price was his pitching coach thru his 2 best years. Do not underrate that connection and what it could do for Haren.

    The absolute best packages I would do for Lee is:

    Alonso, Francisco and Boxberger

    Alonso, Francisco, Sappelt and Del Rosario

    Alonso and Bailey (include Francisco for League)

    Alonso, Valakia and Maloney

    Any conversation including Wood, Joseph or Mez ends the discussion.

    Lee and Wood being on the same staff could benefit Wood tremendously. They already are offseason workout partners. If just a little of Lee rubs off, Wood could be as good as a #2 or #3.

    Take your pick Seattle.


    Haren and Drew I'd give up more.

    Start with Bailey, Alonso and Sulbaran

    1 of Francisco, Heisey, Cozart or Frazier

    1 of Del Rosario, Fisher, Valiquette, Smith or Ondrusek
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

    Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels...

  9. #488
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,118

    Re: Cliff Lee

    I wouldn't include Ondrusek in a trade unless a legit bullpen guy also makes his way to Cincy in that trade or soon after. Logan has been a real bright spot since coming back up.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. That’s the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  10. #489
    Member VR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa
    Posts
    8,588

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Just get him. I don't care about the details.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  11. #490
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Centerville, Ohio
    Posts
    1,420

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Just get him. I don't care about the details.
    The details do matter though. There is a limit on what he is worth to the teams future. The Reds have to be careful of what pieces they give up to not mortgage the future for a 18 game rental.
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

    Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels...

  12. #491
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Toché, OBM.

    I had horrid memories of Gary Majewski, Shawn Estes, Brian Mohler and Ryan Dempster in my head, and I overlooked one of the key components to the current roster.
    I understand your skepticism, it seems like most things have gone wrong for the Reds the past 10 years. But in this case, I think Cliff Lee is a much, much safer bet than Estes or Moehler. Those guys were back of the rotation starters. Cliff Lee is a legit ace, and arguably the best starting pitcher in baseball right now. IMO, Cliff Lee makes this team a legitimate World Series contender.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  13. #492
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,228

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    People like thinking outside the box and not exactly rationally. What's fun for them in agreeing with the obvious that Lee is light years better than Dan Haren?
    I could actually argue that Haren is better than Lee.

    The last three years:

    Haren

    xFIP 3.25
    WHIP 1.117
    K/9 8.7
    GB/FB 1.16

    Lee

    xFIP 3.50
    WHIP 1.135
    K/9 7.1
    GB/FB 1.00

    This year Lee has been better, but some of that is due to his pitching in Safco, as his xFIP indicates. He is actually more of a flyball pitcher than Haren, which is why some have concern over how good he will be in GABP.

    Add in that Haren is under control for an extra year, and it's really hard to defend that Lee is light years better than Haren, if he is better at all.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #493
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,843

    Re: Cliff Lee

    They want Francisco? Sign me up! I wouldn't think twice about trading Alonso and Francisco to the M's for Lee. If they want Wood too, I think the M's have to send something else back to us. However, I would probably move forward with that.

    As long as they aren't parting with Chapman, Mesocaro and Y. Rodriguez, I'll be happy.

  15. #494
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,429

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Maybe I'm just cynical, but I've seen midseason deal after midsesason deal blow up in the face of the Cincinnati Reds. I honestly cannot remember the last time the team added a player who did anything remotely close to what the team needed / wanted them to do. It seems like these things always backfire for this franchise.
    It's been 11 years:

    Juan Guzman
    77.1 IP, 3.03 ERA
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  16. #495
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Waterloo, NY
    Posts
    3,681

    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    Not sure how people are worried about how Lee would hold up in GABP but think Haren is a good idea...I just don't get it.
    Your giving up prospects for Lee for basically two months. Where as with Haren and Drew you have them under team control for a little longer. If I am going to be paying a King's ransome for a difference maker I would at least want to see the player(s) perform for a full season in Red.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25