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Thread: Cliff Lee

  1. #181
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
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    Last time it was a "mystery team" pursuing a top lefty, it was the Reds after Chapman. Is it possible for history to repeat itself? If not, could the Reds stay in contention if the Cards get Lee? Shelby Miller is a hefty price to pay, but I'm sure the Reds could match if they are willing to deal Travis Wood. Wood's upside isn't as great but he's obviously a lot closer to the majors. I'd have to imagine 2 of Wood, Mesoraco, and Alonso would get it done for the Reds.

    Maybe while we're at it we could rope in Brandon League as well. He would certainly bolster the bullpen.
    At this point, the Cardinals may feel like they have to pick up someone like Lee to be able to beat us. Without help, I don't know that they can do it.

    Given the fact we are built for long haul, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for STL to go all in on this year and maybe pull ahead of us if Lee doesn't stay next year.

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  3. #182
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyenut View Post
    Given the fact we are built for long haul, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for STL to go all in on this year and maybe pull ahead of us if Lee doesn't stay next year.
    I just don't think the Cards are the mystery team for that reason. Typically, the Cardinals gamble on Duncan's magic to convert toads into princes. Besides, with Pujols set to take a large portion of their salary budget, they are logically going to go with cheaper, younger players to fill out their team. Shelby Miller should be safe...but you never know.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  4. #183
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    If the Cardinals get Lee, it would feel like 1987 all over again, when the Giants got Rick Reuschel instead of the Reds, and pulled away in the NL West.

    The competition for Reuschel was more public between the two team that year, and I always felt that not only did his going to the Giants help them, it made the Reds a worse team because of the decrease in morale.

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.

  5. #184
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by macro View Post
    If the Cardinals get Lee, it would feel like 1987 all over again, when the Giants got Rick Reuschel instead of the Reds, and pulled away in the NL West.

    The competition for Reuschel was more public between the two team that year, and I always felt that not only did his going to the Giants help them, it made the Reds a worse team because of the decrease in morale.
    I believe it was in large part their refusal to include Scott Scudder in the deal that cost the Reds Reuschel. Hmmm... Scott Who?
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  6. #185
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    I believe it was in large part their refusal to include Scott Scudder in the deal that cost the Reds Reuschel. Hmmm... Scott Who?
    Actually, the Reds made the right move here, even if it cost them the division.

    Syd Thrift, the Pirates GM, demanded that Larkin be included in any deal. He asked for Larkin, Kal Daniels, and Tracy Jones. The Reds countered with Stillwell instead of Larkin. Thrift never backed down on his demand for Larkin, and the Reds never gave in, and eventually, he traded Reuschel to the Reds rival for next to nothing, almost out of spite.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  7. #186
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    From MLBTR:



    Last time it was a "mystery team" pursuing a top lefty, it was the Reds after Chapman. Is it possible for history to repeat itself? If not, could the Reds stay in contention if the Cards get Lee? Shelby Miller is a hefty price to pay, but I'm sure the Reds could match if they are willing to deal Travis Wood. Wood's upside isn't as great but he's obviously a lot closer to the majors. I'd have to imagine 2 of Wood, Mesoraco, and Alonso would get it done for the Reds.

    Maybe while we're at it we could rope in Brandon League as well. He would certainly bolster the bullpen.
    Anyone know much about Shelby Miller? Is he really that good that he would prevent a team from acquiring one of the best pitchers in baseball? I really don't know much about him.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  8. #187
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Actually, the Reds made the right move here, even if it cost them the division.

    Syd Thrift, the Giants GM, demanded that Larkin be included in any deal. He asked for Larkin, Kal Daniels, and Tracy Jones. The Reds countered with Stillwell instead of Larkin. Thrift never backed down on his demand for Larkin, and the Reds never gave in, and eventually, he traded Reuschel to the Reds rival for next to nothing, almost out of spite.
    I think you meant to type that Thrift was the GM of the Pirates.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  9. #188
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Anyone know much about Shelby Miller? Is he really that good that he would prevent a team from acquiring one of the best pitchers in baseball? I really don't know much about him.
    Top draft pick out of last year's draft. Far and away the Cards' #1 prospect, and arguably one of the ten best pitching prospects in the game.
    Go BLUE!!!

  10. #189
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    I think you meant to type that Thrift was the GM of the Pirates.
    Thanks. Fixed it.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  11. #190
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Top draft pick out of last year's draft. Far and away the Cards' #1 prospect, and arguably one of the ten best pitching prospects in the game.
    He's on the Quad Cities staff currently, but they haven't played the Dragons yet. They'll be in Dayton right before the MLB trade deadline, so we might get to see him.

  12. #191
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Shelby Miller cannot be included in a trade before this year's trade deadline. He signed last August, so he will not have been signed for more than the requisite year to be traded by July 31.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #192
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Shelby Miller cannot be included in a trade before this year's trade deadline. He signed last August, so he will not have been signed for more than the requisite year to be traded by July 31.
    He could be a player to be named later though, right?
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  14. #193
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    He could be a player to be named later though, right?
    Yes, he could be named on August 17, one year after he signed.
    Go BLUE!!!

  15. #194
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    He could be a player to be named later though, right?
    Good point. Guess I'm asleep at the wheel today.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #195
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Top draft pick out of last year's draft. Far and away the Cards' #1 prospect, and arguably one of the ten best pitching prospects in the game.
    Thanks. But even top ten pitching prospect doesn't mean he's not worth Cliff Lee, even two months of Cliff Lee, especially if he's only one year removed from the draft, and in single A. Just from that info alone, he sounds like he's a 50/50 shot at being a TOR starter at best, and he s a few years away from that if he makes it. I'd much rather have two months of Lee and the draft picks.

    It just seems like people are talking about him like he's the Cardinal's Chapman.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein


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