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Thread: Cliff Lee

  1. #286
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Prospect Insider said the Yanks are in heavy on Lee. http://prospectinsider.com/view/fres...iff-lee-front/

    Buster Olney tweeted that the Mets are in and a package centered around Mets young shortstop Ruben Tejada is not enough to land Lee, but one based on Wilmer Flores is more like it.

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  3. #287
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    My guess is that if there really is several teams in on a deal, it's mostly because the Ms are trying to get a player package that no single team is able/willing to provide and some prospects might need to be bought by salary relief and another team is willing to take on said salary to address a need etc...

    In other words, its money and prospects mixing to make a complicated calculus but I really doubt that if the Reds are hot for Lee it would be the roughly $4M left on his contract that would be the hold up for Jocketty (i.e. I doubt the Reds need to move $4M in order to take on $4M)...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #288
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Prospect Insider said the Yanks are in heavy on Lee. http://prospectinsider.com/view/fres...iff-lee-front/

    Buster Olney tweeted that the Mets are in and a package centered around Mets young shortstop Ruben Tejada is not enough to land Lee, but one based on Wilmer Flores is more like it.
    So far, Alonso is by far the best prospect mentioned in Lee rumors. But I'm sure there's a lot of names being tossed that aren't hitting the rumor mill.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #289
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Burke, GMJ, Jon Adkins, and if they beg, Daryl Harang.

  6. #290
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Burke, GMJ, Jon Adkins, and if they beg, Daryl Harang.
    Solid!

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #291
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post

    This team probably a .500 team. Unless they remove a bad starter and replace him with a great one. And get another offensive player.
    IMO.. this is the best argument for not getting Lee this year.
    I see this team as slightly above 500 (which is great progress).
    If they make the playoffs, they will struggle to make it past the first round, even if you added Cliff Lee and subtracted nothing.

    I'm all for trading whatever prospects it takes to win the world series, but I think right now, you trade Alonso for a player that will help you for 3 years or so, not a 1/2 year rental.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #292
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    IMO.. this is the best argument for not getting Lee this year.
    I see this team as slightly above 500 (which is great progress).
    If they make the playoffs, they will struggle to make it past the first round, even if you added Cliff Lee and subtracted nothing.

    I'm all for trading whatever prospects it takes to win the world series, but I think right now, you trade Alonso for a player that will help you for 3 years or so, not a 1/2 year rental.
    Here is the thing. Last year Cliff Lee made 5 starts in the playoffs. He was 4-0, 2 CG, 7 ER. Note that the Phillies won all 5 of Lee's starts.

    If the Reds were to make the playoffs and have Lee on the staff they would have a chance in every series they played in. Remember anytime you get to the dance you have a chance.

  9. #293
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    If they make the playoffs, they will struggle to make it past the first round, even if you added Cliff Lee and subtracted nothing.
    I'm 30 years old and the last time the Reds played in a (real) playoff game I was 15. There's an entire generation of kids in the Tri-State area who literally cannot remember the Reds ever being relevant.

    Roll the dice.

  10. #294
    Member dunner13's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    I'm 30 years old and the last time the Reds played in a (real) playoff game I was 15. There's an entire generation of kids in the Tri-State area who literally cannot remember the Reds ever being relevant.

    Roll the dice.
    Im 25 and I agree. Sell the farm for lee. Alonso may never make it to the majors and hes certainly not taking vottos spot. For the handful of Bartolo Colon trades where a team gave up future all stars there are hundreds of trades were the prospects never amounted to anything.

  11. #295
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    If a team only tried to get the pieces they needed to make the postseason if there was 100% chance of winning the World Series, they'd never get to the postseason.

    The time to go for it is now.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #296
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    If a team only tried to get the pieces they needed to make the postseason if there was 100% chance of winning the World Series, they'd never get to the postseason.

    The time to go for it is now.
    Yeah you're so right.

    As I've said before, the game chooses YOU, your organization in terms of what year you will contend. You cannot pick a year to contend. We've been choosen. Some things have went our way. We don't have time to bleed. We are at a critical juncture and there's no guaruntee we'll have this health and this mixture next year or in two years.
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  13. #297
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Here is the thing. Last year Cliff Lee made 5 starts in the playoffs. He was 4-0, 2 CG, 7 ER. Note that the Phillies won all 5 of Lee's starts.

    If the Reds were to make the playoffs and have Lee on the staff they would have a chance in every series they played in. Remember anytime you get to the dance you have a chance.
    I agree. If you could add any starting pitcher in baseball to a playoff roster, I would pick Lee. In fact, I thought the Phillies were stupid to trade him last year, considering the relatively little they got back. I thought the Phils should've added Halladay and kept Lee too and just let him walk. If the Yanks end up getting Lee, they are really going to regret that trade.

    I think the Reds still have holes in the bullpen and the starting 8 is a fragile bet to continue to perform as it did during the hot streak. My main concern is the pen. It will let them down in the playoffs.
    If we get Lee, we better be prepared to add 1-2 quality relievers, or it will all be for naught.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #298
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    If a team only tried to get the pieces they needed to make the postseason if there was 100% chance of winning the World Series, they'd never get to the postseason.

    The time to go for it is now.
    And I agree with all that.

    But I'm not convinced that this year is "chosing" the Reds.

    I wouldn't be upset if we traded Alonso and 2 other prospects to rent Lee.
    I just think, even with that trade, the Reds might not even make the playoffs.
    I'd rather Alonso be traded for a long term answer at SS or LF, as I think next year the Reds will probably have an even better chance of contending..

    But I'm certianly not going to cry or complain if the Reds get Lee.
    I'm not a prospect horder, I just see this team as closer to a 500 team than a contender.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #299
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    And I agree with all that.

    But I'm not convinced that this year is "chosing" the Reds.

    I wouldn't be upset if we traded Alonso and 2 other prospects to rent Lee.
    I just think, even with that trade, the Reds might not even make the playoffs.
    I'd rather Alonso be traded for a long term answer at SS or LF, as I think next year the Reds will probably have an even better chance of contending..

    But I'm certianly not going to cry or complain if the Reds get Lee.
    I'm not a prospect horder, I just see this team as closer to a 500 team than a contender.
    Im not sure I agree with you on this. I think right now this team is better than a .500 team. I don't know how much, but I don't see a long swoon. If a swoon would have happened I think we would have seen that over the past 2-3 weeks.

    I think if you put Lee on the staff you have arguably the best pitcher in baseball taking the mound every 5th day. That gives you a huge boost, I think its a boost that puts the Reds ahead of the Cards in terms of favorites to win the Central.

    I also think we have gone a little crazy on the hording of the prospects issue. If the Reds trade an Alonso, Wood, and Heisey to the M's it would be a big time package. But you also have to realize that the Reds would not only be getting Lee's services in the 2010 season but most probably another 1st round pick in the 2011 draft. And I don't think you can make the argument that Alonso has set the world on fire.

  16. #300
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee

    I'm on board with going all in for Lee, or another high caliber pitcher.

    I've been hearing since the early part of this decade why The Reds shouldn't make trade X or trade Y because the real year The Reds are going to contend is 20XX and we want all hands on deck for that year.

    Problem is, year 20XX keeps getting pushed further and further into the future while promising seasons have come and gone where The Reds stood pat and let a fatal flaw (2006 is the best example) kill their chances.

    I'm 23. I can barely remember anything about 1995. I certainly can't remember 1990, other than what I've watched on my highlight videos. I'm ready to watch a Reds team win some meaningful games.
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