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Thread: Juan Francisco

  1. #46
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by zjr1717 View Post
    Look at a guy like Ryan Hanigan, besides his fielding prowess, his minor league stats have little to recommend to him other than an ability to work a walk.
    Hanigan was hitting .324 at AAA when he was called up.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

  4. #48
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Hanigan was hitting .324 at AAA when he was called up.
    Sure he did, in 300 at bats. Across the minors he hit 294, and his 371 SLG% was less than his 382 OBP%. I'm not denying that Ryan has some skill in making contact, but guys who have a higher OBP than their SLG are definitely oddities, and he has continued this oddness at the major league level. Sure he had contact ability, but what made him at all interesting as a minor leaguer was his ability to walk. Take away the high walk rate, and Hanigan would be sitting back in Massachusetts right now doing whatever.

    Now many guys with Hanigans high walk rate, high contact rate, zero power skillset don't translate at the major league level, though it helps that he plays the position with the least demand for offense, and that he's excellent defensively.

    But this threads about Juan Francisco, and his merits as a major leaguer in the future, not Ryan Hanigan and his curious skillset.
    Last edited by zjr1717; 07-13-2010 at 03:52 AM.

  5. #49
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    As of today he is at .286/.327/.573/.900.

    In 248 official at bats JF has 15 homers and 48 RBI.

    And this is after a terrible start and a month's injury absence.

  6. #50
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    OPS vs. RHP is over 1.000. I can't wait until September call-ups.

  7. #51
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by zjr1717 View Post
    Sure he did, in 300 at bats. Across the minors he hit 294, and his 371 SLG% was less than his 382 OBP%. I'm not denying that Ryan has some skill in making contact, but guys who have a higher OBP than their SLG are definitely oddities, and he has continued this oddness at the major league level. Sure he had contact ability, but what made him at all interesting as a minor leaguer was his ability to walk. Take away the high walk rate, and Hanigan would be sitting back in Massachusetts right now doing whatever.

    Now many guys with Hanigans high walk rate, high contact rate, zero power skillset don't translate at the major league level, though it helps that he plays the position with the least demand for offense, and that he's excellent defensively.

    But this threads about Juan Francisco, and his merits as a major leaguer in the future, not Ryan Hanigan and his curious skillset.
    A good defensive catcher that hits .300 has a place on a 25 man roster regardless of his slugging percentage

  8. #52
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    OPS vs. RHP is over 1.000. I can't wait until September call-ups.
    He has the potential to be a terror off the bench.

  9. #53
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    A good defensive catcher that hits .300 has a place on a 25 man roster regardless of his slugging percentage
    True but generally speaking BA drops from the minors to majors. Guys hitting .294 are probably a .270-.275 hitter in the bigs.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  10. #54
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    True but generally speaking BA drops from the minors to majors. Guys hitting .294 are probably a .270-.275 hitter in the bigs.
    What about guys that are hitting .342 for May, June and July?

  11. #55
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    What about guys that are hitting .342 for May, June and July?
    Does he do things like shorten his swing w/ 2 strikes? Does he take the outside breaking balls to left field? Does he recognize breaking balls? Has anyone watched him that can comment? I assume AAA pitchers aren't just grooving him fastballs. I know MLB pitchers won't, at least not after they travel 400 feet.

  12. #56
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Cisco is a free swinging slugger who hits for avg. as well. He's going to K a lot and not walk a lot. He's also going to hit a lot. He does go opposite field. And he can hit them out to the opposite field too. His plate discipline is slowly, constantly, showing improvement.

    And no, AAA pitchers are not grooving heaters. They wouldn't be AAA pitchers long if they did.

  13. #57
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Does he do things like shorten his swing w/ 2 strikes? Does he take the outside breaking balls to left field? Does he recognize breaking balls? Has anyone watched him that can comment? I assume AAA pitchers aren't just grooving him fastballs. I know MLB pitchers won't, at least not after they travel 400 feet.
    I want to echo some of what GOYA said. Francisco can hit offspeed pitches and he can absolutely go the other way with legit power. He hit a double last night to the opposite field warning track on a line like it was nothing. I even think that his plate discipline is improving quite a bit. I still think someone needs to convince him that walks aren't bad. It seems that when he gets 3 balls on him he tries everything in his power to not take a free pass. He has some holes in his swing and he isn't going to hit .300 in the majors with his plate discipline. I do think he is getting close to the point where he could start to walk at a rate that would be acceptable though. He is getting deeper and deeper into counts than he ever has before. Laying off of close pitches earlier in the counts.

  14. #58
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Just jumping into the conversation here, but is he better as a trading chip or something we should be grooming for our own use?

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  15. #59
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Just jumping into the conversation here, but is he better as a trading chip or something we should be grooming for our own use?
    I know that in the past the Rockies were absolutely enamored with him. If that holds true, I would see what I could pry away from them. With that said, I think the Reds are pretty enamored with him themselves and I certainly get it. He does things that you just can't teach. His arm is special. His power is special.

  16. #60
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Just jumping into the conversation here, but is he better as a trading chip or something we should be grooming for our own use?
    Definitely as a trading chip imo. He's a liability in the field, and an American League team would do well to use him as a platoon DH.


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