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Thread: Juan Francisco

  1. #61
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Definitely as a trading chip imo. He's a liability in the field, and an American League team would do well to use him as a platoon DH.
    He's a liabality at 3rd base, but there's no doubt his bat has the potential to stick in LF.

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  3. #62
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    He's a liabality at 3rd base, but there's no doubt his bat has the potential to stick in LF.
    From what I've seen of him, he's a liability in left field, too.

  4. #63
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Been saying this for three years, and unfortunately it's probably too late now, but with his cannon arm, body type, and lack of a position, he would've made a hell of a convert to catcher.

    Assuming he's not traded in the next few days, I'd bring him up and make him the go-to LH pinch-hitter.
    Go BLUE!!!

  5. #64
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It seems that when he gets 3 balls on him he tries everything in his power to not take a free pass.
    Yep, I see the same thing. He wants to HIT the ball. It's like a walk just pisses him off.

  6. #65
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Yep, I see the same thing. He wants to HIT the ball. It's like a walk just pisses him off.
    Dusty's type of player.

  7. #66
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Dusty's type of player.
    Reds have 2nd best OBP in NL. Whatever Dusty preaches, it seems to work.
    Domo Arigato, Here Comes Joey Votto

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  8. #67
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Yep, I see the same thing. He wants to HIT the ball. It's like a walk just pisses him off.
    lol
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  9. #68
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    He has put up the most consistent numbers in the minors of any Reds prospect in the last 3 and a half years. He can roll out of bed and hit .270 and SLG .500. There has to come a point and time where you just have to believe that given the chance to do it here in Cincinnati, he would.

    Maybe some severe quality time with Rolen would help him at 3B moving toward 2013. As far as LF goes, if we can live with Gomes out there, we can live with Francisco as a equal defender with a plus plus arm. Maybe he won't go side to side on a ball and maybe still can be taught to charge one.

    If Francisco can play a eh LF, playing him at 3B when Rolen is taking days of or DL'd and filling in at 1B for Votto a few times a year, he could get around 350, 400 AB's and probably hit around 25 HR's and drive in 70 from the 7 spot in the line up.

    Conceivably the Line Up vs RHP could look like this heading into next year...

    2B Phillips
    SS Cozart
    1B Votto
    3B Rolen
    RF Bruce
    CF Stubbs
    LF Francisco
    C Hanigan

    Vs LHP

    2B Phillips
    SS Cozart
    1B Votto
    3B Rolen
    CF Stubbs
    RF Bruce
    LF Heisey
    C Hanigan

    Even a sunday special wouldn't be so bad...

    CF Dickerson
    SS Cozart
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    RF Bruce
    LF Heisey
    3B Francisco
    C Miller

    I can live with that kinda line up shuffling.

    That still leaves 1B/LF Alonso, UT Frazier, OF Perez, OF Sappelt, 1B/OF Dorn, IF Sutton, IF Valakia and C Mesoraco in AAA as reinforcements. Still a deep AAA team.

    But back to the original point. Francisco has nothing left to prove at AAA.

    In 344 AB's in AAA his #'s are...

    21 HR (1 every 16.4 AB's) 70 RBI's in 75 games, 25 2B's, 4 3B's (50 XBH out of 105 Hits in 75 games. A sustainable 19.1% LD% and a very sustainable .315 BABIP.

    His slash in those 344 BA's is a .305 BA - .338/.584/.922 - 17 BB - 80 K's - A Power ISO of .145 - Surprisingly low, meaning, the kid's numbers are way more than HR fulled.
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

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  10. #69
    Member GOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    Maybe some severe quality time with Rolen would help him at 3B moving toward 2013. As far as LF goes, if we can live with Gomes out there, we can live with Francisco as a equal defender with a plus plus arm. Maybe he won't go side to side on a ball and maybe still can be taught to charge one.
    Cisco doesn't need to be taught to charge balls. He's very aggressive on balls he can reach. His problem is getting the ball in the glove and sometimes making the transfer to his throwing hand. He'll often bobble and then still get someone out because he recovers and uses that cannon of an arm he has.

  11. #70
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    He has put up the most consistent numbers in the minors of any Reds prospect in the last 3 and a half years. He can roll out of bed and hit .270 and SLG .500. There has to come a point and time where you just have to believe that given the chance to do it here in Cincinnati, he would.
    There has to come a time where you also consider that he might not be a major leaguer at all. A fine example...

    Juan Francisco career minor league #'s - .282/.315/.494

    Mystery 3B career minor league #'s - .287/.345/.521

    Mystery 3B career major league #'s - .179/.271/.299

    Just because you can hit in the minors doesn't mean it translates to the bigs.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  12. #71
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    His slash in those 344 BA's is a .305 BA - .338/.584/.922 - 17 BB - 80 K's - A Power ISO of .145 - Surprisingly low, meaning, the kid's numbers are way more than HR fulled.
    What is power ISO? His ISO (SLG-AVG) is .240 by my calculation.
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  13. #72
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    There has to come a time where you also consider that he might not be a major leaguer at all. A fine example...

    Juan Francisco career minor league #'s - .282/.315/.494

    Mystery 3B career minor league #'s - .287/.345/.521

    Mystery 3B career major league #'s - .179/.271/.299

    Just because you can hit in the minors doesn't mean it translates to the bigs.

    There are many, many differences between Francisco and Brandon Larson that the comparison is not meaningful IMO. There is no basis for comparison.

    The primary difference is that JF is demolishing AAA pitching at age 23. At the same age, Larson was just entering AA ball.

    Larson entered AAA at 24, but his first full season at Louisville was at age 25. And his OPS in 2001 at age 25 was .727 at AAA, not the .900 plus that Francisco is putting up.

    Larson did dominate at AAA at age 26-27, but that tells us little. Lots of career minor leaguers put up good AAA numbers as mature players.

    JF's big problem, a lack of walks, didn't plague Larson to the same extent. In other words, Larson had entirely different hitting issues - his problem was not a history of bad plate discipline.

    The two are not comparable.

  14. #73
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    I don't know exactly how good Alonso's defense is in LF, but I would much rather count on Alonso starting LF over Francisco. Especially as Alonso's power comes back.

  15. #74
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    My fear (offensively) where JF is concerned, would be his agressiveness at the plate. I just worry that major league pitching will be able to get him out on a consistent basis without throwing him actual strikes.

    Defensively, I just don't see him as an everyday 3B and I believe the Reds agree or he would have already been up caddying for Rolen. Likewise, considering the production issues in the Reds OF, I would think that he would be getting a steady diet of starts there in L'Ville if the Reds thought he had a shot at being even a passable OFer4.

    I hope I'm wrong, that Juan can hit like he currently is for the Bats at the next level and that he can develop enough defensively to give the Reds something close to league-average perormance at either 3B or LF.

    As it stands now, I think the Reds best bet would to include Francisco in a deal to an AL team for a piece at a position of need. If the Reds were in the AL, I believe he and Alonso would already be vying for the everyday DH spot.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 07-29-2010 at 07:43 PM.

  16. #75
    Resident PED Expert nemesis's Avatar
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    Re: Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    What is power ISO? His ISO (SLG-AVG) is .240 by my calculation.
    BA on XBH only.
    If you can't be a good example... then you'll just have to be a horrible warning...

    Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels...


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