BA Top 50 Midseason Prospects

[Benihana]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...0/2610314.html

Chapman #14.

No other Red, including Devin Mesoraco, made the Top 50.

Begin complaining now...

[dougdirt]

Not worth complaining as far as Reds go. I think they have it right as of today. There are some guys listed who I feel don't belong on the list, but in particular for the Reds, I think they have it right with only Chapman as a Top 50 guys today.

[Benihana]

Not worth complaining as far as Reds go. I think they have it right as of today. There are some guys listed who I feel don't belong on the list, but in particular for the Reds, I think they have it right with only Chapman as a Top 50 guys today.

So you don't think Mez (or Alonso for that matter) is a Top 50 guy?

I don't at this point, but I'm surprised to hear that you would agree.

[dougdirt]

So you don't think Mez (or Alonso for that matter) is a Top 50 guy?

I don't at this point, but I'm surprised to hear that you would agree.

I mean I haven't exactly gone through my Top 50 and figured out who all is eligible/ineligible. One thing to note with this list is that no 2010 draftees are here regardless of whether they have signed or not. So as I said, I think Mesoraco for example is better than some guys on this list, that doesn't make him a top 50 guy necessarily because some guys aren't even eligible for this list who are eligible for prospect lists.

Alonso has been hitting very well lately and has looked good as well watching him. He even looks a little better in left field. Still, he is going to need to show the skills he has showed in the past, in particular the plate discipline to get back in the top 50 for me.

[GIDP]

Alonso will climb back up if he recovers.

Half a season of numbers isnt enough to drive Devin up to 50.

Frazier is the one probably losing the most real value of our prospects.

[Scrap Irony]

But it's odd you don't think Mesoraco is a Top 50 prospect in baseball, doug. As much as you've trumpted him in the past and as well as he's played so far this season, it's a suprise that you don't have him higher.

[dougdirt]

But it's odd you don't think Mesoraco is a Top 50 prospect in baseball, doug. As much as you've trumpted him in the past and as well as he's played so far this season, it's a suprise that you don't have him higher.

He is certainly a Top 100 prospect. He actually may be there. Like I said, I haven't broken down a list. But my gut feeling is he is just on the outside right now. Of course, my gut feeling last year was that most of the guys ranked in my own top 50 shouldn't have been but I couldn't find better guys either.

[Benihana]

This being the case, even more puzzling to me is why people wouldn't trade him for Cliff Lee. The only prospects that I refuse to deal are guys that are Top 25 prospects in the game at a position where there is a real need, and even then I'm listening.

To not trade a player who is acknowledged to not be a Top 50 prospect in the game, who plays the same position as the guy you just drafted in the top half of the first round (and is expected to move quickly), is just mind-boggling to me. I love that the Reds now have a pretty good prospect at a position where it is had to find those. But I would love even more having an ace pitcher to propel the Reds to the World Series. How anyone can not see that is beyond me.

[dougdirt]

This being the case, even more puzzling to me is why people wouldn't trade him for Cliff Lee. The only prospects that I refuse to deal are guys that are Top 50 prospects in the game at a position where there is a real need, and even then I'm listening.

To not trade a player who is acknowledged to not be a Top 50 prospect in the game, who plays the same position as the guy you just drafted in the top half of the first round (and is expected to move quickly), is just mind-boggling to me. I love that the Reds now have a pretty good prospect at a position where it is had to find those. But I would love even more having an ace pitcher to propel the Reds to the World Series. How anyone can not see that is beyond me.

I guess I would say because if Mesoraco keeps it up for the rest of the season in AA, he could be a Top 25 prospect. Even today, he is a much better prospect than the guy we just took in the 1st round.

[Benihana]

I guess I would say because if Mesoraco keeps it up for the rest of the season in AA, he could be a Top 25 prospect. Even today, he is a much better prospect than the guy we just took in the 1st round.

But do you really want to play the IF/COULD game? Because I guess I would counter with:

IF the Reds get Cliff Lee (or some equivalent now that he's gone), they COULD win the World Series.

Isn't that kind of the point of this whole thing? I guess the answer to that depends on whether you really care about the REDS or the REDS MINOR LEAGUES. Not knocking you personally, because I also (clearly) love following prospects, but at a certain point you need to remember why we care.

[dougdirt]

But do you really want to play the IF/COULD game? Because I guess I would counter with:

IF the Reds get Cliff Lee (or some equivalent now that he's gone), they COULD win the World Series.

Isn't that kind of the point of this whole thing? I guess the answer to that depends on whether you really care about the REDS or the REDS MINOR LEAGUES. Not knocking you personally, because I also (clearly) love following prospects, but at a certain point you need to remember why we care.

The Reds future and their farm system are strongly tied together.

[Benihana]

The Reds future and their farm system are strongly tied together.

Yes, but there is also something called a present, which reminds me of a quote from the genius that is Ferris Bueller:

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."

[Mario-Rijo]

This being the case, even more puzzling to me is why people wouldn't trade him for Cliff Lee. The only prospects that I refuse to deal are guys that are Top 25 prospects in the game at a position where there is a real need, and even then I'm listening.

To not trade a player who is acknowledged to not be a Top 50 prospect in the game, who plays the same position as the guy you just drafted in the top half of the first round (and is expected to move quickly), is just mind-boggling to me. I love that the Reds now have a pretty good prospect at a position where it is had to find those. But I would love even more having an ace pitcher to propel the Reds to the World Series. How anyone can not see that is beyond me.

My .02 cents on the matter. How many stated that no way no how they trade him for Lee, probably less than you think. What I saw most people saying was they preferred not to deal him and would try to avoid doing so. But alot of them I'm guessing would have parted with him, hesitantly of course if it meant the deal would get it done. Unless the M's were asking for Mes plus another top end prospect like Alonso or Wood. SO it wasn't so much no to dealing Mes for Lee it was no we aren't gonna give up more than we should. This is the way I read most folks, maybe we should add a poll to find out.

Now some others (very few) have suggested he was off the table altogether. I personally don't think I'd have pulled the trigger on it with him in the mix, not 100% positive but say 90%. My thinking was/is Cliff Lee isn't as valuable to the Reds as he would have been several other teams (mainly in the playoffs). Though because he was an upgrade still I would have offered a seemingly fair & competitive package (and crossed my fingers that Jack Z wasn't as smart as I think he is). But I wouldn't overpay for a guy who as good as he is isn't a true stopper IMO and in addition was likely just a rental.

Bottom line if the M's and Reds couldn't come to terms on a more than reasonable package without Mes' addition then they simply weren't trying very hard to come to an agreement. The main ingredient of a successful team is the ability to accurately assess their own talent and just tossing Mes into the mix for Lee without being heavily prodded to is just asinine.

Just for example some combination of these players (plus additional lesser players) ought to have been just as fair if not moreso than they received.

Homer Bailey
Yonder Alonso
Matt Maloney
Juan Francisco
Chris Heisey
Travis Wood
JC Sulbaran
Etc.....

Basically pretty much anyone except Aroldis, Mes, Cozart, Hamilton and Yorman. Now we can talk about any of these guys (except Aroldis) but the odds of Jack Z getting me to include one would be very low. Cliff Lee just doesn't impress me as much as he does everyone else I guess.

[GIDP]

You have no idea what the Reds offered for Lee.

[Benihana]

You have no idea what the Reds offered for Lee.

Is this directed towards me?

If so, I never implied that I did, thank you very much. I am having a discourse about whether people on this board were inclined to include Mesoraco in a trade.