50 sounds like a big number, but when you consider that it's less than 2 prospects per team, it's a pretty darn elite group. As good as Mes has been this year, he wasn't highly regarded enough to get there on reputation and hasn't quite done enough on the field to merit it.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
Well then, you would certainly be wrong.Originally Posted by GIDP
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I guess I'll take your word for it...
Just a question & thought. Are the Reds going to sign Grandal? Isn't he eligible to return to Miami, forgoing a signed contract with the Reds? If we don't sign our 1st round pick this year, do we get another 1st round pick in 2011 draft?
If so, maybe they know signing him is not happening. Mesoroco in this scenario now becomes untouchable as a trading chip due to the lack of quality in the catching department throughout our organization.
While that is a possibility, most teams (Reds included) won't begin serious negotiations until a week before the August 15 deadline. Therefore, most teams don't really know whether or not a player will or won't sign until that week, and in most cases, the guys drafted in the top half of the first round will sign.
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I think the Reds absolutely are going to have better leverage if Mez keeps killing it the way he has. If it doesn't work out, they'll get the extra 1st round pick next year and the draft is supposed to be deeper then. Still, I'd like to see them grab Grandal. I do think he will be a very good player and very good catchers don't grow on trees. He could later be flipped for a stud SS or another need if he's a good player.
The Reds future and their farm system are strongly tied together.
Yes, but there is also something called a present, which reminds me of a quote from the genius that is Ferris Bueller:
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
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Beni, as one who said NO to Mes for Lee:
1. I am not surprised that BP doesn't have him on it. It is my position that BA and BP and Sickles and others will be slow to fix what was a mistake on their part dropping him so far. People hate to admit mistakes, so they will hope he cools off.
2. The issue with Mes is one relative to what the Reds need NEXT YEAR. And that would be a catcher. Hernandez is old and creaky. Hanigan is serviceable. And Mes is perhaps on the doorstep of being an answer at catcher for this club for the decade. Cheaply. And as early as mid-point 2011. I think he can be a .750 or so help for this team with plus defense. I keep that.
I was against dealing it for a rental, I remain against dealing it for a rental.
You want to include him for Haren or Grienke? Fine by me. Bring back an achor who is under contract and deal him, no issues from me.
But not for a rental.
Yea I'm pretty much exactly in line with this post. I dont mind trading off guys that are 100% blocked for rentals. Losing Yonder honestly was a lot of talent to give up for Lee, but in season trades some times happen like that and I'm fine with it because of Votto being here at least 3 or 4 more years. Dealing your best prospect at a position that isnt very deep has to hold higher organizational value. Zach Cozart is a similar example of my line of thinking. He isnt untouchable but its harder to deal that guy than if we had a major league quality SS somewhere else.
Hanigan is both cheap and has produced at the major league level. He deserves to start the majority of the games next season. Add a veteran catcher as a back-up and it's likely to be a plus position both offensively and defensively.
Mesoraco has certainly produced thus far in the minor leagues, but s the drop-off from a hypothetical Mesoraco two years from now and Hanigan enough to offset the drop-off from Lee to Harang this season while chasing the pennant and World Series?
Without Lee, the Reds likely don't have the ace to hitch their wagon to. That means they may win the pennant or the Wild Card, but not much else.
With Lee, if they win the pennant or Wild Card, they then have the pitching to compete with anyone.
That's Beni's position.
Yeah, I get that.
I firmly disagree with it. Not worth the rental on a wing and a prayer.
Here is another angle to the argument-
In some ways, a move for Cliff Lee could possibly help the Reds for the long-term as well (or at least, as opposed to acquiring a pitcher like Oswalt, Haren or Carmona with additional years at a high salary on the books.) Lee bolts after the season (hopefully after winning the World Series) leaving the Reds with two additional first round picks as well as payroll flexibility (that Oswalt and co. would not provide) that would allow them to step back and decide the long-term futures of players like Votto et al.
With an Oswalt or Haren on the books, it may be more difficult to think about locking players like Votto (or Bruce, Cueto, etc.) up for the long term, as there may just not be enough money to go around, at least for the moment. Of course this is all speculation, and hypothetical at that because as we all know Cliff Lee will not be playing in Cincinnati this season, but it is worth remembering that Lee would bring two extra high draft picks (in a deep draft, no less) and that he wouldn't weigh down the payroll for years to come.
So would I give up Devin Mesoraco, he of the .762 career OPS, for one of the best pitchers in the game down the stretch run, a chance at a WS run, two extra first round picks, and more payroll flexibility than a player like Oswalt would give heading into the offseason? Abso-freaking-lutely.
It wouldn't mortgage the future of the franchise, and 1990 was a loooooong time ago.
Last edited by Benihana; 07-10-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Hanigan is 30. He can be the veteran. Go with a young high potential guy. I'm happy with Mes, but I still want another one to pair with him down the road. Maybe that is Grandal, but the Reds should be looking for that guy in the offseason to replace Ramon (assuming Ramon's option doesn't vest). Then when Mes is ready, maybe Hanigan is dealt for something. He's going to be arb eligible soon, and if he isn't so cheap, he's not nearly as valuable IMO.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
I'm guessing it might be helpful to have a Spanish-speaking catcher on the roster.
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