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Thread: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

  1. #1
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    Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    For this year and next year?

    So, we know that Walt and the Reds heavily coveted Lee, which means they want to upgrade the rotation. Haren has been mentioned as another possible pickup for the Reds and I'm sure there are a couple other pitchers the Reds may be looking at if a Haren deal doesn't work out.

    Further, we've seen that Travis Wood looks pretty legitimate and it's going to be hard to send him down to the minors...so what the heck is going to happen this year and beyond?

    For 2010:

    Pitcher X that Walt is coveting from another team (maybe?)
    Cueto
    Arroyo
    Harang (injured)
    Wood
    Leake
    Bailey (injured)
    Volquez
    Maloney

    Maloney is obviously not a factor. He'll be sent down once Harang is back and I don't think Harang's injury is serious. Bailey's injury looks to be serious. I'm not sure he should or even will be in the equation for this year, unless he moves into a relief role. In theory, that would leave...

    Cueto
    Volquez
    Harang
    Arroyo
    Wood
    Leake

    But what if Walt goes after a stud? Does Wood get traded as part of that deal? Leake is going to be cut off at some point due to the overload in innings. But if the Reds keep Wood this year, shouldn't his innings be limited as well? He's only 1 year older than Leake. Would you move Harang to the bullpen? Walt originally said Volquez would be bullpen bound, but I just don't see it, especially after his last start at AAA. He's likely penciled in after the break.

    So moving on to next year...the possibilities for the rotation are...

    Pitcher X that Walt is coveting from another team (POSSIBLY)
    Cueto
    Arroyo
    Harang
    Wood
    Leake
    Bailey
    Volquez
    Chapman

    I think Harang's option is not picked up. I don't think Walt will keep both Arroyo and said pitcher he is coveting if he gets them. It would just be too expensive for the Reds...so it would likely be one or the other. So that leaves as possible options...

    Pitcher X OR Arroyo
    Cueto
    Volquez
    Wood
    Leake
    Bailey
    Chapman (if he is ready)

    Chapman needs to continue to work in AAA...he's not ready now, but next year he may be. The Reds did not pony up $30M to keep him in AAA or use him as a reliever. The recent emergence of Wood may slow down Chapman's track to the majors though, which would be for the better I think. Wood could be traded to land the Reds some useful players. Bailey has no options left, so he's likely bullpen bound or traded as he looks like the odd man out (if the Reds keep Wood). Walt could be ballsy and go with a completely young rotation of Cueto, Volquez, Wood, Leake and Chapman/Bailey, but that just doesn't seem likely. Injuries have to be considered too, which could change things.

    A lot of tough choices to make...I'm glad I'm not the GM. What do you think will happen? What would you do?

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  3. #2
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    I don't think we can count on Homer for anything at this point. Even next year. I'm done expecting anything from that guy. I know it's not his fault he's injured, but even before the injury he was very inconsistent this year. If he pans out, great. But I hope The Reds don't enter next year expecting anything from him.

    This is probably Harang's last year here, unless he comes back on a SEVERE pay cut. I have a feeling he'll head west.

    I'd like for Walt to acquire 1 more starting pitcher. Haren or Oswalt, either one would be great. Depends when you ask me, which one I prefer. Either one would give The Reds a respected, established ace at the top.

    For the rest of this year:
    Haren / Oswalt (hopefully)
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Wood
    Leake / Volquez
    Harang, etc.

    Next year:
    Haren / Oswalt (hopefully)
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Leake
    Wood
    Volquez

    I realize that's 6 pitcher for 5 spots. That's a great thing. Oh, and there's also some Cuban guy in the mix, too. Throws real hard.

    Although, I suppose Wood might end up being a part of a trade for another starter, although I hope not. He has impressed the heck out of me since his callup. I'd like The Reds to make every effort to keep him out of whatever trade they may or may not end up making.
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    I just can't see the Reds keeping Arroyo and adding another starting pitcher from the outside. I could be wrong though.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Assuming, health I'd say that these guys are locks:

    Cueto
    Leake
    Wood
    Volquez

    The question is how you go about getting the best possible pitcher to add to that group.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Don't have the link here but someone recently posted an Arroyo interview about coming back at a discount a la Rolen and, although I don't remember exactly what he said, the jist of it was "no" bordering on "hell no."

    So, maybe bringing in someone from the outside is a possibility. Is Arroyo worth his option for a year? IOW, is he better than someone we could sign in FA?

    I'm not sure.
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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Don't have the link here but someone recently posted an Arroyo interview about coming back at a discount a la Rolen and, although I don't remember exactly what he said, the jist of it was "no" bordering on "hell no."

    So, maybe bringing in someone from the outside is a possibility. Is Arroyo worth his option for a year? IOW, is he better than someone we could sign in FA?

    I'm not sure.
    Here's the list. I don't see anyone, outside of Lee, that is definitely better than Arroyo. A few could be cheaper and just as good, however.

    I think the best best is a trade for Oswalt or Haren or Marcum, or Carbona, or whoever is available this trading deadline.

    Starting pitchers
    Bronson Arroyo (34) - $11MM club option with a $2MM buyout
    Erik Bedard (32) - $8MM mutual option
    Kris Benson (35)
    Jeremy Bonderman (28)
    Dave Bush (31)
    Jose Contreras (39)
    Kevin Correia (30)
    Doug Davis (35) - $6.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
    Jorge De La Rosa (30)
    Justin Duchscherer (33)
    Shawn Estes (38)
    Josh Fogg (34)
    Jeff Francis (29) - $7MM club option
    Freddy Garcia (35)
    Jon Garland (31) - $6.75MM mutual option with a $600K buyout
    Chad Gaudin (28)
    Rich Harden (29) - $11MM mutual option with $1MM buyout
    Aaron Harang (33) - $12.75MM club option with a $2MM buyout
    Livan Hernandez (36)
    Jason Jennings (32)
    Hiroki Kuroda (36)
    Cliff Lee (32)
    Ted Lilly (35)
    Rodrigo Lopez (35)
    Kevin Millwood (36)
    Sergio Mitre (30)
    Brian Moehler (39)
    Jamie Moyer (48)
    Brett Myers (30) - $8MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout
    Vicente Padilla (33)
    Carl Pavano (35)
    Brad Penny (33)
    Andy Pettitte (39)
    Tim Redding (33)
    Nate Robertson (33)
    Ben Sheets (32)
    Jeff Suppan (36) - $12.75MM club option with a $2MM buyout
    Brett Tomko (38)
    Koji Uehara (36)
    Javier Vazquez (34)
    Brandon Webb (32)
    Todd Wellemeyer (32)
    Kip Wells (34)
    Jake Westbrook (33)
    Dontrelle Willis (29)
    Chris Young (32) - $8.5MM club option
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Assuming, health I'd say that these guys are locks:

    Cueto
    Leake
    Wood
    Volquez

    The question is how you go about getting the best possible pitcher to add to that group.
    What about Chapman though? The Reds are not paying him $30M to stay in AAA or be a reliever I'd have to believe.

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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Here's the list. I don't see anyone, outside of Lee, that is definitely better than Arroyo. A few could be cheaper and just as good, however.

    I think the best best is a trade for Oswalt or Haren or Marcum, or Carbona, or whoever is available this trading deadline.

    Starting pitchers
    An uninspiring lot to be sure. I might take a look at Brad Penny. Maybe Brandon Webb.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    What about Chapman though? The Reds are not paying him $30M to stay in AAA or be a reliever I'd have to believe.
    I don't think he's going to help this team as a reliever this year. Nor would I want to count on him as a starter in our rotation next year.

    The $30M is irrelevant at this point. They're paying him to be the best pitcher he can be. If he forces his way in to the rotation, great. But until and unless he can get that walk rate down, he's not going to be a help to the Reds.

    It would be a different story if he was dominating AAA. But he's not.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    That very uninspiring list of FA, short of Cliff Lee, is another reason why I'd be going after Danny Haren.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think he's going to help this team as a reliever this year. Nor would I want to count on him as a starter in our rotation next year.

    The $30M is irrelevant at this point. They're paying him to be the best pitcher he can be. If he forces his way in to the rotation, great. But until and unless he can get that walk rate down, he's not going to be a help to the Reds.

    It would be a different story if he was dominating AAA. But he's not.
    I don't disagree with you per se, but I just don't think the Reds will see the $30M as irrelevant. I think it will weigh into some decision making. I'm not saying it should, but that it likely will.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I don't disagree with you per se, but I just don't think the Reds will see the $30M as irrelevant. I think it will weigh into some decision making. I'm not saying it should, but that it likely will.
    But his salary this year and next year is only $1 Million per year. Its not like he is eating up $5 or $6 Million per year in the minors. He can and probably should start 2011 in AAA. Just need to get him back in the rotation down there. He needs to be ready to be a starter by the time the cost really does go up and fooling with these relief outings is not helping him build his IP nor work on his command or secondary stuff.
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    But his salary this year and next year is only $1 Million per year. Its not like he is eating up $5 or $6 Million per year in the minors. He can and probably should start 2011 in AAA. Just need to get him back in the rotation down there. He needs to be ready to be a starter by the time the cost really does go up and fooling with these relief outings is not helping him build his IP nor work on his command or secondary stuff.
    I think the Reds are counting on Chapman to come out of the pen this year.

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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    I'm not seeing how Maloney is OBVIOUSLY not a factor.

    The young starters have shown that they are MORE than capable of starting in the bigs IMO. Today is just another example IMO. 5.1 ip of 1 run 4 hit ball today so far against the Phillies. Maloney IS a factor.
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    Re: Reds Rotation : Present & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I think the Reds are counting on Chapman to come out of the pen this year.
    Throws hard, walks a lot of guys, all over the place. If the intent is for him to replace Cordero, he's got the MO down. Maybe he needs to go on an eating binge.

    I hope they aren't counting on him. The Reds need help at the end of the pen. Chapman won't pitch there even if he's on the team. The team would be better served by giving more innings to Bray and Ondrusek while backing off on Cordero and Rhodes a bit. Heck, Phil Valiquette may be a better idea.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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