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Thread: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline)

  1. #1
    Worth The Wait
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    We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline)

    I'm a bit torn right now, I must admit.

    On one hand there is the pure fan in me that is so excited to see the Reds make their first serious run in 11 years. After all, competing into the fall is what this game is all about and it has literally been a decade since we've done that. So, I'm very anxious and excited for us to stay in this race.

    Having said that, as fans, I think we've been waiting even LONGER for the Reds to produce this kind of young talent, specifically yooung starting pitching.

    As a matter of fact, you might be able to make the argument that this is the best stable of young arms the organization has had in a very, very long time.

    I've thought about it long and hard and I've decided that I am all for Walt making moves to help improve our chances this year, but I am NOT willing to part with ANY of the young arms to do it.

    Untouchables:

    Wood
    Leake
    Volquez
    Chapman
    Cueto
    Bailey/Maloney (I would be willing to part with ONE of those two)

    Yep, all of them. I don't care what any combo of the above would bring in return...I wouldn't do it for Lee, Hanley, etc.

    Looking at those 7 names, you have the potential for an absolutely dominating rotation for the next several years. Of course, you really only need 4 or 5 of them, but at this point, it's too early to tell which are going to be the best and I do not want to learn the hard way that we dealt a stud for a rental.

    If I thought the Reds were a bit "fluky" this year, I'd be all for selling the farm to make a push....there are no guarantees in this game, and when you see an opportunity, sometimes you need to pounce.

    But I am confident in this organization right now and I'm confident that even if we come up short this year, that we have the foundation of an extremely good team in place.

    Stay the course Walt. Do what you can, but not at the expense of the arms.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Walt isn't going to screw this opportunity by spending at the deadline like a kid at a strip club for the first time. Walt isn't a kid, and this isn't his first trip to the Jiggly Room.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    I get everyone's fascination with Wood given his recent counting stats though I disagree he's untouchable.

    But Bailey and Maloney are untouchable?

    Bailey has no options and given the other options in the Reds system and on their roster, frankly, Homer might not actually have a home in Cincy.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Member top6's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin View Post
    Looking at those 7 names, you have the potential for an absolutely dominating rotation for the next several years. Of course, you really only need 4 or 5 of them, but at this point, it's too early to tell which are going to be the best and I do not want to learn the hard way that we dealt a stud for a rental.
    So you don't have confidence in the same organization that developed all this young pitching to figure out which pitchers are the most valuable?

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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Gammons is cited on MLBtraderumors.com as saying the Jays were asking the Red Sox for Jose Iglesias in return for Scott Downs. Kenny Williams is also quoted as essentially saying the sellers prices are way too high after a piece that claims the White Sox would give the Nats "any minor leaguer" for Dunn but still can't work a deal.

    I'd take Williams quote alone with a huge grain of salt considering he's a buyer but given what we've seen so far I'd say the chances of a big trade involving the Reds are pretty slim.

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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    So you don't have confidence in the same organization that developed all this young pitching to figure out which pitchers are the most valuable?
    Not so much that I don't have confidence to pick the right guys, as much as it is wanting to hold onto the depth. Let's say you deal a couple of them for help in the line-up....then Cueto or Leake suffers a major injury and/or one of those guys doesn't pan out.....by keeping them all around you protect yourselves against some of the inevitable pitfalls of young pitchers.

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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    I like Matt Maloney.

    I'd deal Maloney and Wood for Hanley Ramirez. I'd throw in Yonder Alonso, Frasier, and any minor league reliever. Donnie Joseph too. They could have both Janish and Cozart in the deal. I'd let Cabrera and Rolen "mentor" the kid, and I'd watch the Reds become the favorites in the NL central for a decade. Yeah, I'd sign him to a ridiculous LTC extending his current contract.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    I might be in the minority here, but I would listen to offers on Bailey. The strong performances we've seen from other young arms this year (and the promise of Chapman) make me wonder if Bailey is worth the wait for him to finally reach his potential.

    Perhaps Bailey is one of those guys who would thrive elsewhere and we could get a good player in return.

  10. #9
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    I might be in the minority here, but I would listen to offers on Bailey. The strong performances we've seen from other young arms this year (and the promise of Chapman) make me wonder if Bailey is worth the wait for him to finally reach his potential.

    Perhaps Bailey is one of those guys who would thrive elsewhere and we could get a good player in return.
    I think Bailey gets you a Gavin Floyd type deal, former big time prospect sent out for average but good player in return. Just wonder where the Reds would look and what they want
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by LincolnparkRed View Post
    I think Bailey gets you a Gavin Floyd type deal, former big time prospect sent out for average but good player in return. Just wonder where the Reds would look and what they want
    Really? I think Bailey is overvalued. By a lot. A guy who can't throw strikes at the big league level, and now has arm problems to boot?

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    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    I'm totally willing to part with Bailey and Maloney.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  13. #12
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Really? I think Bailey is overvalued. By a lot. A guy who can't throw strikes at the big league level, and now has arm problems to boot?
    At this point, he's a sunk asset. The value he has is next to negligible, and you're better off holding onto him to see if there is value to be mined later.

    The player I don't get the love for is Matt Maloney. Dude doesn't have an out pitch at the major league level. Classic AAAA material, IMO.
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin View Post
    I'm a bit torn right now, I must admit.

    On one hand there is the pure fan in me that is so excited to see the Reds make their first serious run in 11 years. After all, competing into the fall is what this game is all about and it has literally been a decade since we've done that. So, I'm very anxious and excited for us to stay in this race.

    Having said that, as fans, I think we've been waiting even LONGER for the Reds to produce this kind of young talent, specifically yooung starting pitching.

    As a matter of fact, you might be able to make the argument that this is the best stable of young arms the organization has had in a very, very long time.

    I've thought about it long and hard and I've decided that I am all for Walt making moves to help improve our chances this year, but I am NOT willing to part with ANY of the young arms to do it.

    Untouchables:

    Wood
    Leake
    Volquez
    Chapman
    Cueto
    Bailey/Maloney (I would be willing to part with ONE of those two)

    Yep, all of them. I don't care what any combo of the above would bring in return...I wouldn't do it for Lee, Hanley, etc.

    Looking at those 7 names, you have the potential for an absolutely dominating rotation for the next several years. Of course, you really only need 4 or 5 of them, but at this point, it's too early to tell which are going to be the best and I do not want to learn the hard way that we dealt a stud for a rental.

    If I thought the Reds were a bit "fluky" this year, I'd be all for selling the farm to make a push....there are no guarantees in this game, and when you see an opportunity, sometimes you need to pounce.

    But I am confident in this organization right now and I'm confident that even if we come up short this year, that we have the foundation of an extremely good team in place.

    Stay the course Walt. Do what you can, but not at the expense of the arms.
    Great post Ed.

    I second your concerns over dealing young pitching but I'd give up three years of average baseball for a possible WS appearance this year.

    In today's Major League baseball world, a small market teams best chances may be fleeting. You look at a team like the Twins. They have an average payroll and are seemingly in the mix year in and year out. They do just enough to make the playoffs or contend for them but never put the pieces in place to truly become WS contenders or champions. Though above average baseball is truly great for the city, a championship is the only true measuring stick in sports.

    I went to college in the Cleveland market and have a bunch of Cleveland friends who would trade all the years of successful Indians and Cavs years for just one championship. The ability to hang a banner instead of merely supporting a team into October is much sweeter in the short and long run.

    Right now, the Central is a two team race and stands to be that till the end of the year. You look at a team like the Cubs and to a lesser extent the Brewers who could be highly competitive next year and for years to come. IMO, this is our chance to truly make a run with the right trade.

    Furthermore, I don't see how WJ could give up more than one of these names Chapman, Leake, Wood, and Bailey during the same deadline. Even with one traded, that still leaves you with the other 3 plus Arroyo, Cueto and Volquez. Not to mention, you have 5th starter power in Lecure and Maloney. Also, keep in mind you always have the bargain bin in the winter which sometimes comes up roses. Also, you have the wildcard in Harang. Perhaps, he would come back for a bargain price considering he's on the wrong side of his career and he's put up mediocre numbers for several years now.

    I may get slapped for saying this but I like the idea of dealing Wood while his stock is at an all time high. Sell high, buy low is the name of the game. I see him falling back to Earth. In a perfect world, Bailey is healthy and is traded. However, I don't see someone taking a flyer on an injured arm at this time.

    The key to all of this trade talk is who or what the Reds actually need. Obviously, Rolen's injury status is paramount to these discussions. They cannot afford to lose him for two weeks and maintain their race with the Cards IMO. If this happens, they'll need another bat rental to plug that gaping hole at 3rd. Though to Cairo's credit, he's performed very well when needed. Names like Reynolds and Cantu come to mind. Forgive me my AL thirdbaseman knowledge is escaping me. And yes I know Cantu's defense is atrocious.

    However, I really think the Reds need an ace pitcher like Haren or Oswalt to truly make that push into the WS this year. They have one starting pitcher with any postseason experience.

  15. #14
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    And if the Reds DO trade some of that extra pitching for a run at the series THIS year only to fall short...will you still look at the next 3 years of "average" baseball in Cincy in the same light? The only way a "go for broke" move looks good is if it works out. If we go for it this year and then fall back to the bottom of the heap for the next 10 years...I doubt anyone will think it was a good move. We've built from the ground up, time to reap the benefits for years to come...not a one and done.

    I agree with Edskin...stay the course. Add some bullpen depth if we must, but no rentals at the cost of a high upside arm. Young pitching is the preferred currency in baseball...don't sell it for a U-Haul.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 07-20-2010 at 11:30 AM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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    Hamilton ROY & GG

  16. #15
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: We've waited a long time for this (which I why I do NOT want to "buy" at deadline

    I also agree with Edskin with one caveat. I'd like to see either some changes in the lineup (a Bruce-Heisey platoon) or the Reds obtain a bat. I would be totally opposed to trading any of the young pitching. Why? Becaue I don't think this is the year. "The Year" in a year or two down the road. Buying a rental (like Cliff Lee or Oswalt) just depletes you of talent and you have to start the next year without the talent. If that makes any sense.


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