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Thread: NL MVP Race

  1. #1
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    NL MVP Race

    We're over 90 games into the season, and Joey Votto is still considered by most to be a top 2 MVP candidate, so I figure it's time we at least start discussing it.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...p.watch/1.html

    As things stand today, the NL MVP and NL Central races are intertwined. If either Votto or Albert Pujols breaks away in the MVP race, it could be enough to make the difference in the Central, and whichever team wins the Central could well put its first baseman over the top in the MVP race, especially if it's Votto's underdog Reds, who trail Pujols' Cardinals by a half game entering this weeks' action. Pujols is a 30-year-old three-time MVP and future Hall of Famer in his 10th season. Votto is a 26-year-old in his third full season who needed the Final Vote to make the All-Star team. Pujols is a Dominican righty, Votto a Canadian lefty. Their performances this season, however, couldn't be much more similar. The only significant differences are that Votto strikes out a bit more often, while Pujols has benefited from 23 intentional walks to Votto's two.
    As of 7/19/10:

    Votto: .310/.419/.580, 22 HR, 60 RBI, 7 SB
    Pujols: .307/.413/.567, 21 HR, 64 RBI, 9 SB

    I think as of now, the Pujols name brand, and the fact that Votto plays in such a hitter friendly environment, would make me think that Pujols has the upper hand. Does Votto's glove advantage help put him over the edge this year? Should be fun to track as the season goes along.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Obviously, Votto needs to steal more bases.

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    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    I think the only way Votto has a chance to win it over Pujols is if the Reds go farther than the Cardinals in the playoffs. If their numbers remain this close, Pujols takes it easily. I'm not saying he's not deserving, just that its the reality.
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    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    To me, the most telling difference is in the IBB category.

    The fact that Votto has only been put on base intentionally twice this year (as opposed to 23 for Pujols) is a testament to how hot the Reds offense was the majority of the first half of the season.

    If the rest of the Cardinals were hitting like Rolen, Gomes, Phillips, etc... then Pujols would have had far more opportunities to distance himself from Votto.
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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    I wouldn't say Votto has a 'glove advantage'. Pujols is about as good as it gets on defense at first base. I think it will come down to whichever team goes further in the playoffs.

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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I wouldn't say Votto has a 'glove advantage'. Pujols is about as good as it gets on defense at first base. I think it will come down to whichever team goes further in the playoffs.
    Numbers-wise, so far, Votto has the advantage with the glove this year.

  8. #7
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Blimpie View Post
    To me, the most telling difference is in the IBB category.

    The fact that Votto has only been put on base intentionally twice this year (as opposed to 23 for Pujols) is a testament to how hot the Reds offense was the majority of the first half of the season.

    If the rest of the Cardinals were hitting like Rolen, Gomes, Phillips, etc... then Pujols would have had far more opportunities to distance himself from Votto.
    Yet they are still walking at around the same rate. I don't really see how the fact that the walks were intentional means that Pujols has had far less opportunities than Votto. If anything, it shows that Votto is being much more selective when not being intentionally walked.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I think as of now, the Pujols name brand, and the fact that Votto plays in such a hitter friendly environment, would make me think that Pujols has the upper hand. Does Votto's glove advantage help put him over the edge this year? Should be fun to track as the season goes along.
    I'd say that past MVP voting has shown us that voters like to mix it up rather than continue to award it to the same guy each year -- otherwise Pujols would have more than 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by yab1112 View Post
    I think the only way Votto has a chance to win it over Pujols is if the Reds go farther than the Cardinals in the playoffs. If their numbers remain this close, Pujols takes it easily. I'm not saying he's not deserving, just that its the reality.
    I believe MVP voting occurs before the playoffs begin. Playoff performance cannot affect the outcome of the MVP vote.

    Consider that the Reds have "come from nowhere", I'd say if both guys are close statistically and the Reds make the playoffs (division or wild card), Votto would be given the edge by the voters.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 07-20-2010 at 02:58 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Pujols OBI%: 16.6%
    Votto OBI%: 16.5%

    Pretty interesting. They drive in others at nearly identical rates.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  11. #10
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'd say that past MVP voting has shown us that voters like to mix it up rather than continue to award it to the same guy each year -- otherwise Pujols would have more than 3.
    Does Pujols only have 3 because the don't like to give it the the same guy every year? Or because Barry Bonds was better early in Albert's career?

  12. #11
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'd say that past MVP voting has shown us that voters like to mix it up rather than continue to award it to the same guy each year -- otherwise Pujols would have more than 3.
    I think you can attribute that more to basketball than you can baseball, but I do agree that that may exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Pujols OBI%: 16.6%
    Votto OBI%: 16.5%

    Pretty interesting. They drive in others at nearly identical rates.
    Where do you find those numbers? I can't find them on fangraphs.

  13. #12
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Where do you find those numbers? I can't find them on fangraphs.
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    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I believe MVP voting occurs before the playoffs begin. Playoff performance cannot affect the outcome of the MVP vote.
    Yep, that's right. Postseason won't have anything to do with it.

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.

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    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: NL MVP Race

    If their numbers remain as close as they are (and it is spooky how similar they are so far) then the winner will be the guy on the team that wins the division. And I don't know that I would have a problem with that. Statistically the two are almost indistinquishable this year, so perhaps the award goes to the player that "led" his team to the playoffs.

    Obviously this isn't the best way to determine an individual award, but what else can you do? I suspect, however, that Pujols separates himself from Votto by year end. (And I say that as a huge Votto fan.) Pujols has done it his whole career, and he seems to be heating up.

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    Re: NL MVP Race

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Does Pujols only have 3 because the don't like to give it the the same guy every year? Or because Barry Bonds was better early in Albert's career?
    Bonds plus a couple of seasons the Cards didn't make the playoffs. As long as both teams make the playoffs, and it's that close, I could see it going to whoever seems hotter late in the season.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons


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