Haren traded to Angels

[mth123]

The only way I can explain this from the D'Back's side is that there is something wrong with Haren that scouts have discovered, most likely something that is the reason behind his recent jump in HR/9. Other teams knew about this, and just weren't willing to offer that much for him. I am not saying this is the case, but that it is the only logical explanation that I can find for why they got so little for him, when they didn't need to trade him.

Still, I personally am higher on Joe Saunders than most. He has the stuff to be a #2-3 starter, but for some reason, has pitched more like a #4-5 starter lately. He really should be getting more strikeouts, and giving up less home runs, but he hasn't for the past season and a half. I think that there's a chance he can put it together in Arizona, in an easier league. But I still wouldn't trade Haren for him, based on that chance.

I don't think you need to look so deeply. Haren isn't cheap anymore after 2010. He jumps to $12.75 Million in 2011 and the same in 2012. He has a $15.5 Million option in 2013 with a $3.5 Million buy-out. Assuming the buy-out and spreading it over 2011 and 2012, he's roughly a $15 Million per year guy the next two years. With an ERA in the high 4's and scads of homers, the D-Backs are lucky that they didn't have to add players to get some one to take him. On paper, Haren looks a lot like Aaron Harang last year at this time (or two years ago). Haren and Harang even sound alike. I think the D-backs did pretty well to get Saunders, who will hold a spot in the rotation and provide similar production to what Haren provided in 2010 at an over $10 Million savings (and a prospect like Skaggs to boot) while exiting the deal when the bargain came to an end.

[jojo]

It looks like the Dbacks like lefties that you can dream on. Saunders kind of eats innings for them so thats why he's part of the deal.

[TheNext44]

I don't think you need to look so deeply. Haren isn't cheap anymore after 2010. He jumps to $12.75 Million in 2011 and the same in 2012. He has a $15.5 Million option in 2013 with a $3.5 Million buy-out. Assuming the buy-out and spreading it over 2011 and 2012, he's roughly a $15 Million per year guy the next two years. With an ERA in the high 4's and scads of homers, the D-Backs are lucky that they didn't have to add players to get some one to take him. On paper, Haren looks a lot like Aaron Harang last year at this time (or two years ago). Haren and Harang even sound alike. I think the D-backs did pretty well to get Saunders, who will hold a spot in the rotation and provide similar production to what Haren provided in 2010 at an over $10 Million savings (and a prospect like Skaggs to boot) while exiting the deal when the bargain came to an end.

That makes a little more sense about the money, and the part about them thinking he on the decline.

The one big question I have for the D'Backs is, "Are you trying to win next year or trying to rebuild?" This trade kinda helps them a little either way, but not fully either way. Kinda hard to figure out their overall plan.

[_Sir_Charles_]

They need an upgrade to the rotation. Haren would have provided that.

I'm not so sure about that. He's either leading the league in HR's allowed or right near the top, he's also allowed the most hits in the NL (maybe both leagues, not sure). Now transfer that to GABP. I just don't think he's a good fit...especially for that kind of money.

[nate]

How about the fact that the Reds don't need Haren?

That's not a fact.

[nate]

I'm not so sure about that. He's either leading the league in HR's allowed or right near the top, he's also allowed the most hits in the NL (maybe both leagues, not sure). Now transfer that to GABP. I just don't think he's a good fit...especially for that kind of money.

If he's so bad, why were so many teams after him?

[_Sir_Charles_]

If he's so bad, why were so many teams after him?

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm saying he's pitched bad this season. And those flyball tendancies wouldn't play so bad in a different ballpark than GABP. He's simply a poor fit for the Reds IMO.

[nate]

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm saying he's pitched bad this season. And those flyball tendancies wouldn't play so bad in a different ballpark than GABP. He's simply a poor fit for the Reds IMO.

He would've immediately upgraded a rotation in desperate need of upgrading. His K/9 and BB/9 would be the best amongst Reds starters with 90 IP. The HR/9 is bad for him but it's also not something he's come close to in his career. I'd guess it could be fixed. It's not like Arizona exactly suppresses the HR either.

We'd better hope the Cardinals don't get Roy Oswalt and the Reds do something to make their pitching better; it's the weakest part of the team.

[fearofpopvol1]

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm saying he's pitched bad this season. And those flyball tendancies wouldn't play so bad in a different ballpark than GABP. He's simply a poor fit for the Reds IMO.

The Reds have more road games left than home games, include the west coast trip. Yes, he's pitched below expectations this year, but the past would suggest this is an anomaly and not the norm. Even with the down production, he's still been 2.5 WAR up until now. It's pretty likely he'll be over 4 WAR by the end of the year. That's an upgrade to our rotation.

[oregonred]

It is very odd that three franchises have given up on Haren. Great point on the large number of WC games remaining in 2010. Haren would have looked nice on the Calif and Az/Col trips. Also his salary would slot well for 2011 (Arroyo) and 2012 (CoCo).

Walt may have viewed Arroyo in 2011 and Haren as a wash. I believe Arroyo is so underappreciated here on RZ and his option should be picked up for next season, but I'd still take Haren two ways to Sunday for 2011.

[TheNext44]

The Reds have more road games left than home games, include the west coast trip. Yes, he's pitched below expectations this year, but the past would suggest this is an anomaly and not the norm. Even with the down production, he's still been 2.5 WAR up until now. It's pretty likely he'll be over 4 WAR by the end of the year. That's an upgrade to our rotation.

I think that's the rub. Statistically speaking, the odds are higher that it is an anomaly. But it's far from a sure thing. Maybe scouts have discovered that his stuff is off, or some specific reason why he's throwing a lot of gopher balls that can't be easily corrected.

We can only look at the stats but major league teams have access to much more information on him. The fact that this was the best D-Backs could get for him suggests that other teams scouted him, and thought that the odds of him returning to form wasn't high enough to justify trading any top talent to get him.

I was very high on him, but now am less confident of him getting back to being a true TOR starter.

[bucksfan2]

From some reports I have seen Haren had a no trade clause and wanted to go to a WC team. I guess the reports were correct in saying that Haren had Cincy on his no trade list. When you need to trade a player and he is refusing to go everywhere but a couple of teams you can't demand that much.

[Brutus]

From some reports I have seen Haren had a no trade clause and wanted to go to a WC team. I guess the reports were correct in saying that Haren had Cincy on his no trade list. When you need to trade a player and he is refusing to go everywhere but a couple of teams you can't demand that much.

He had a limited no-trade. He could say "no" to 12 teams, but that means 18 teams could have traded for him without his approval. It's been reported Cincinnati was on his "no" list, so it's possible the Reds couldn't have traded for him. But in general, he still had a broad list of options.

[Brutus]

It is very odd that three franchises have given up on Haren. Great point on the large number of WC games remaining in 2010. Haren would have looked nice on the Calif and Az/Col trips. Also his salary would slot well for 2011 (Arroyo) and 2012 (CoCo).

Walt may have viewed Arroyo in 2011 and Haren as a wash. I believe Arroyo is so underappreciated here on RZ and his option should be picked up for next season, but I'd still take Haren two ways to Sunday for 2011.

Given up? I don't think anyone else gave up on him, though perhaps you just used a poor choice of terms.

St. Louis traded him as a value prospect commodity in the Mark Mulder trade -- who at the time was a pretty good pitcher. Oakland traded him because that's what Oakland does. They trade talented pitchers before they begin making too much money.

I don't know what Arizona's motivation for trading him was, though I imagine it was more about money than anything else.

[oregonred]

Given up was the wrong term, of course. I know the history of each of the deals. He's a topline pitcher. Cliff Lee has been shuffled more than a Vegas Blackjack deck in the last 12 months, but the odd thing with Haren is that he has had multiple years of control each time he was dealt.

I guess the bottom line is that unless you are a big market team you'll be tossed around like a hot potato with more controlled service time than in the past from the trade rental deadline of July 31st in the year of an expiring deal. The 2-month rental market has changed, teams aren't willing to overpay with young pitching prospects anymore, even for a frontline starter.