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View Poll Results: How will you feel if Walt does nothing?

Voters
46. You may not vote on this poll
  • Great, we have very good young talent and don't need to give it away

    22 47.83%
  • Surprised, all teams in this position usually make trades to improve themselves

    20 43.48%
  • SHOCKED, how can Walt not do anything

    1 2.17%
  • PISSED, can't believe Walt is so out of touch with what this team needs.

    3 6.52%
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Thread: What if Walt stands pat?

  1. #16
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Every other starting Shortstop in the Major Leagues would be an improvement.

    But, specifically, Arizona's Drew would be. His Defense is lights-out better than Cabrera's, and his OBP is lights-out better than Cabrera's.

    As much as I've always liked and believed in Alonso, I'd trade Alonso for Drew straight up, and that would be more right there than Arizona got for Haren.

    Problem is...

    A) You are not going to trade for a position that you just signed a player for in the off season
    B) You are not going to trade for a player whom Dusty won't play over his "vet" whom he believes in.

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  3. #17
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Unless we nosedive they'll contribute success to leadership... basically we're not getting rid of cabrara or letting anyone take his job, IMO.

  4. #18
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    Problem is...

    A) You are not going to trade for a position that you just signed a player for in the off season
    B) You are not going to trade for a player whom Dusty won't play over his "vet" whom he believes in.
    Part B is the problem.

    Part A isn't a problem for Walt, but it is for Dusty. The thing with Part A is that it wasn't a large contract. It's a fill-in until Cozart (or someone else we have and/or get) is ready.

  5. #19
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Every other starting Shortstop in the Major Leagues would be an improvement.

    But, specifically, Arizona's Drew would be. His Defense is lights-out better than Cabrera's, and his OBP is lights-out better than Cabrera's.

    As much as I've always liked and believed in Alonso, I'd trade Alonso for Drew straight up, and that would be more right there than Arizona got for Haren.
    I really hope you don't believe Cesar Izturis or Yuniesky Betancourt as our SS over Cabrera. Sounds like you have a personal issue with OCab to believe he is the WORST starting SS in the MLB.

    His defense is lights out better than OCab's?

    Drew's UZR
    2007: -12.3
    2008: -15.8
    2009: 2.7
    2010: 4.0

    OCab's
    2007: 12.7
    2008: 14.3
    2009: -13.6
    2010: 5.3

    I guess I don't understand these advanced fielding stats, cause it looks to me like OCab is actually at worst an equal fielder. Seems to me Stephen Drew would be a slight overall upgrade that's not worth the risk of disrupting team chemistry.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 07-26-2010 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #20
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Part B is the problem.

    Part A isn't a problem for Walt, but it is for Dusty. The thing with Part A is that it wasn't a large contract. It's a fill-in until Cozart (or someone else we have and/or get) is ready.

    I would disagree, if you are Walt, how do you explain to your owner, "Hey I brought OC in to play short, but now want this younger kid. As for B, as we see tonight, AGAIN Dusty proves he can not manage as he has OC batting leadoff. WHY? I challenge ANYONE to explain how you can bat OC anywhere but 7th or 8th.

  7. #21
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    His defense is lights out better than OCab's?

    Drew's UZR
    2007: -12.3
    2008: -15.8
    2009: 2.7
    2010: 4.0

    OCab's
    2007: 12.7
    2008: 14.3
    2009: -13.6
    2010: 5.3

    I guess I don't understand these advanced fielding stats, cause it looks to me like OCab is actually at worst an equal fielder. Seems to me Stephen Drew would be a slight overall upgrade that's not worth the risk of disrupting team chemistry.
    Team chemistry is a myth....

  8. #22
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    I challenge ANYONE to explain how you can bat OC anywhere but 7th or 8th.
    8 game hit streak, our hottest bat since the break. 3 hit game recently.

    And w/o Brandon there, the only other choice would be stubbs, and he strikes out too much probably

  9. #23
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Great. Greinke is the only guy that is "out there" that I see as a significant upgrade and #1) I don't see them moving him, and #2) I don't want us to pay out the nose to get him. Maybe a minor trade here or there will still happen, but nothing that lets major talent leave the organization. Lets prepare to contend for multiple seasons.
    "He looked like a surfer kid from SoCal," manager Dusty Baker says. "He didn't say much, but you could tell he was cool."

  10. #24
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by krm1580 View Post
    I think that is kind of the problem that the Reds and Walt face in a nutshell. The check list goes

    1.) What players are realistically available?
    2.) Are they a significant upgrade over what is currently on the roster
    3.) Is the value they provide better than what they are trading away.

    Just running through the exercise. Say Drew is available is does his .099 superior OPS improve the Reds so much that you are willing to trade away a Yonder Alonso.

    I think what you will find is the guys available are only marginally better than what we have and the only way you will not overpay in prospects is if you take back really bad contracts.
    Exactly

  11. #25
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Every other starting Shortstop in the Major Leagues would be an improvement.

    But, specifically, Arizona's Drew would be. His Defense is lights-out better than Cabrera's, and his OBP is lights-out better than Cabrera's.

    As much as I've always liked and believed in Alonso, I'd trade Alonso for Drew straight up, and that would be more right there than Arizona got for Haren.
    Don't get me wrong, if I could pick Drew or Cabrera for my team going forward, I take Stephen Drew every time.

    But would you honestly want to have Brendan Ryan while the Cards have Cabrera?

  12. #26
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I really hope you don't believe Cesar Izturis or Yuniesky Betancourt as our SS over Cabrera. Sounds like you have a personal issue with OCab to believe he is the WORST starting SS in the MLB.

    His defense is lights out better than OCab's?

    Drew's UZR
    2007: -12.3
    2008: -15.8
    2009: 2.7
    2010: 4.0

    OCab's
    2007: 12.7
    2008: 14.3
    2009: -13.6
    2010: 5.3

    I guess I don't understand these advanced fielding stats, cause it looks to me like OCab is actually at worst an equal fielder. Seems to me Stephen Drew would be a slight overall upgrade that's not worth the risk of disrupting team chemistry.
    Another good post.

    What I want to know is how did Cabrera improve his UZR to 5.3 this year? Less than 2 months ago it was a negative number. Did he turn into Ozzie Smith over the last 50 games? That's what he would have had to do in order to swing that number all the way to 5.3.

    While he has improved lately, I haven't seen that kind of improvement. Maybe his "veteran" experience is helping him the 2nd time through the National League this season and he's putting himself in better position so that his "limited" range doesn't come into play as much.

  13. #27
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    I would disagree, if you are Walt, how do you explain to your owner, "Hey I brought OC in to play short, but now want this younger kid. As for B, as we see tonight, AGAIN Dusty proves he can not manage as he has OC batting leadoff. WHY? I challenge ANYONE to explain how you can bat OC anywhere but 7th or 8th.
    Pretty simple explanation.

    Cabrera was the best on the market at the time and I went out and got him.

    Hoping to find lightening in a bottle, it's just not there, and I'm now going to improve the position some more.

  14. #28
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    When you trade to improve your team in mid-season, you're always "Buying High" and "Selling Low".

    It's a rare situation for the REDS. I'm certainly OK with "Buying High" and "Selling Low" at this time.

  15. #29
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Another good post.

    What I want to know is how did Cabrera improve his UZR to 5.3 this year? Less than 2 months ago it was a negative number. Did he turn into Ozzie Smith over the last 50 games? That's what he would have had to do in order to swing that number all the way to 5.3.

    While he has improved lately, I haven't seen that kind of improvement. Maybe his "veteran" experience is helping him the 2nd time through the National League this season and he's putting himself in better position so that his "limited" range doesn't come into play as much.
    I don't know enough about UZR to be able to give a good explanation, but based off the games I have been able to catch on TV in Indy of late (about 2 out of every 3 game series is on here) OCab looks like a different defender post all-star break (probably helped he got to rest his ankle). He has made some nice plays in the hole recently and him and Phillips have had some great DP turns. I don't know how much a few plays will effect the UZR rating, but I know they suggest looking at 3 years worth of UZR because it has some volatility with it.

    Your last paragraph may be the spot on explanation. In combination with learning the players, and also learning the tendencies of his own pitchers have probably helped. I was pretty surprised when I looked at fangraphs and saw he was at 5.3, I figured he was probably around 0.

  16. #30
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    Re: What if Walt stands pat?

    Cabrera is hitting in July and getting on base (.338 OBP).

    He's improving his Defense, clearly.

    The DP turns have been great all season.

    Maybe the problem is solved.


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