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Thread: Can Bruce play in center??

  1. #61
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I think most posters here believe that an OF of Heisey/Stubbs/Bruce is likely better than an OF where Gomes is the LF and Heisey replaces one of the other two guys.

    Gomes OPS of .795 simply doesn't make up for the defensive and running downgrade he brings to the table.

    When Gomes was OPS'ing .900 it was a different matter.

    But he isn't; he's the weak link in the OF now.
    It really wasn't. When Gomes was at his peak this season he had a WAR in the Janish range. There were quite a few discussions on it that his defense took away most of his offensive value.

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  3. #62
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I agree. The offense has been good, but it's impossible to deny that they're both struggling terribly. Add in the struggles of vets like Phillips and Rolen and the regression of Hanigan, and they're going to need reinforcements. But, of course, they're going to need pitching reinforcements too. That fact hasn't changed either.
    Stubbs has been in a slump for a week. Prior to that, the guy had an .840 OPS over his last 45 games.

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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Stubbs has been in a slump for a week. Prior to that, the guy had an .840 OPS over his last 45 games.
    You can cut his numbers any way you wish, the guy is incredibly streaky. His season OPS is .708.

  5. #64
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    I guess I'm not surprised, but shouldn't we want to see the youngsters make or break this season? A lot of fans treat seasons now like fantasy redraft leagues. Bench Bruce, sit Stubbs, jettison Joey (just kidding). To me, if these are the guys that we will be seeing for the foreseeable future, these are the guys who should be in the lineup day in and day out. Maybe the team ends up missing the postseason, but I'm not sure that I want to see Cincy start screwing with the young guys just because they are treating this like the last season of their lives.

    If the Reds see Stubbs as being the future CF of this franchise, I want to see him get exposure to this atmosphere.

  6. #65
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I guess I'm not surprised, but shouldn't we want to see the youngsters make or break this season? A lot of fans treat seasons now like fantasy redraft leagues. Bench Bruce, sit Stubbs, jettison Joey (just kidding). To me, if these are the guys that we will be seeing for the foreseeable future, these are the guys who should be in the lineup day in and day out. Maybe the team ends up missing the postseason, but I'm not sure that I want to see Cincy start screwing with the young guys just because they are treating this like the last season of their lives.

    If the Reds see Stubbs as being the future CF of this franchise, I want to see him get exposure to this atmosphere.
    Just like Volquez, these guys will get all the starts they need to sink the season. No worries on that front. And then they'll be all battle-scarred next season and ready to...ah who cares? By the time they're any good, Rolen and Votto will be gone anyway.

  7. #66
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice of IH View Post
    but if you are Parker Perry, does that make me Nate?
    Sure!
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  8. #67
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Just like Volquez, these guys will get all the starts they need to sink the season. No worries on that front. And then they'll be all battle-scarred next season and ready to...ah who cares? By the time they're any good, Rolen and Votto will be gone anyway.
    You don't see many young position players with any sort of talent getting replaced at the deadline if they are in a playoff chase. Plus, I'm curious as to what kind of upgrade we expect to be able to realistically acquire right now. What OFer is on the block, reasonably paid and available for a decent price? The popular answer might be Heisey and I could see him start to get some time, but something tells me that he'll leave us wanting more.

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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    You don't see many young position players with any sort of talent getting replaced at the deadline if they are in a playoff chase. Plus, I'm curious as to what kind of upgrade we expect to be able to realistically acquire right now. What OFer is on the block, reasonably paid and available for a decent price? The popular answer might be Heisey and I could see him start to get some time, but something tells me that he'll leave us wanting more.
    That's the spirit! Cross our fingers and hope for the best.

  10. #69
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    That's the spirit! Cross our fingers and hope for the best.
    Again, this isn't a one year redraft league. The core of this team is back next year. It's ok to show improvement without winning it all. It isn't ok to act like you haven't been here before and start offering up the future for a short term solution.

    Then again, I guess Walt just needs to go on Amazon and order that TOR arm and stud OF/SS that are on sale this week.

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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Again, this isn't a one year redraft league. The core of this team is back next year. It's ok to show improvement without winning it all. It isn't ok to act like you haven't been here before and start offering up the future for a short term solution.

    Then again, I guess Walt just needs to go on Amazon and order that TOR arm and stud OF/SS that are on sale this week.
    Parts of this team will be here next year; parts won't. They could find themselves in an identical position next year, or worse. Unlikely they'll be in a better position. So next year, you'd advise not adding talent?

  12. #71
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Parts of this team will be here next year; parts won't. They could find themselves in an identical position next year, or worse. Unlikely they'll be in a better position. So next year, you'd advise not adding talent?
    There's a difference btw adding talent at the deadline and adding talent in the offseason. You are more apt to deal a part of the starting lineup in the offseason than right now.

    This week I would think that, barring Walt getting a Godfather type offer, he should get some help for the bench and bullpen. This offseason, I think we see some moves being made. They will hopefully have some money to spend and they have some minor league depth available.

  13. #72
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice of IH View Post
    but if you are Parker Perry, does that make me Nate?
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  14. #73
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I guess I'm not surprised, but shouldn't we want to see the youngsters make or break this season? A lot of fans treat seasons now like fantasy redraft leagues. Bench Bruce, sit Stubbs, jettison Joey (just kidding). To me, if these are the guys that we will be seeing for the foreseeable future, these are the guys who should be in the lineup day in and day out. Maybe the team ends up missing the postseason, but I'm not sure that I want to see Cincy start screwing with the young guys just because they are treating this like the last season of their lives.If the Reds see Stubbs as being the future CF of this franchise, I want to see him get exposure to this atmosphere.

    I'm in full agreement with edabbs here. (although I was in favor of Dickerson over Stubbs to play CF)

    After all don't we all want the Reds to have a long range plan and to stick to that plan for more than half a season?
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 07-28-2010 at 04:07 AM.

  15. #74
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Parts of this team will be here next year; parts won't. They could find themselves in an identical position next year, or worse. Unlikely they'll be in a better position. So next year, you'd advise not adding talent?
    Chapman + recovered Volquez + Leake w/ more innings + full season of Wood + more mature Cueto + full season of more mature Ondrusek, Smith, Bray, and Fisher + more mature Bruce, Stubbs, and Heisey + likely contributions from Cozart, Alonso, Frazier, Francisco, Valaika, Boxberger and Meseraco + around $12M in payflex = likely better position in 2011.

    That combined surely outweighs the probable decline from Cordero, Rolen and Phillips + the lose of Arroyo, Harang and Rhodes.

    Not all of the top stuff will happen, but even if half of it does, the Reds will be in a better position than this season, or at the very least, will not be worse.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  16. #75
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Can Bruce play in center??

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Chapman + recovered Volquez + Leake w/ more innings + full season of Wood + more mature Cueto + full season of more mature Ondrusek, Smith, Bray, and Fisher + more mature Bruce, Stubbs, and Heisey + likely contributions from Cozart, Alonso, Frazier, Francisco, Valaika, Boxberger and Meseraco + around $12M in payflex = likely better position in 2011.

    That combined surely outweighs the probable decline from Cordero, Rolen and Phillips + the lose of Arroyo, Harang and Rhodes.

    Not all of the top stuff will happen, but even if half of it does, the Reds will be in a better position than this season, or at the very least, will not be worse.
    I'm not sure I agree at all. Other than RF, I don't really see a lot of places where this tean will improve. I see many spots where this team will go backwards.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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